Final Quest #12

Yes, that was my favourite bit in this whole issue.

"Maiden" Venka was hit by the tool Two Edge invented. And by Winnowill fault, through Rayek. How do you think Two Edge will react? I know he's not here now but...

KR Wordgazer wrote:

I just read this issue and am still digesting it.  I want to do another read before going in depth. But I do want to say this one thing: I thought the Reef transformation was fantastic, and it was the best thing in the issue.

What Reef has done is taken something that was used to harm him, and appropriated it for his own empowerment.  He has embraced the form he lived in so long, made it part of himself and turned it into something strong and beautiful.  Now he is whole.  I love it.

i kind of agree, but at the same time, i kind of don't. it's largely baffling for me...i mean ok, we know he was a healer but...what? was this the form he was always meant to be in? and i agree with someone who said this before, why couldn't we have seen when he had this revelation? WHAT in the world led to it? granted i will admit the lines he SAYS is cool. "I was not broken. I was incomplete! now i am WHOLE!" the lines are cool, the actions....debatable from my perspective.

and sadly i can't take it seriously anymore, after joking with my friend about him being the "Penis from the Black Lagoon" due to the oh so obvious and rather large crotch bulge he's sporting. i mean the tentacles could be frightening, the claws on the hands and feet are good...but the mouth falls woefully short of being terrifying or intimidating. he has large fishy dingdong sucking lips and...it seems like no teeth. or furry teeth like a whale. nothing sharp, no fangs, nothing.

so as monsters go...he's definitely not on the same threatening level as say Madcoil or Master of the Shapechanged from Wild Hunt. i mean i guess it'd work for scaring stupid humans who don't know better...but only so far.

Vaeri wrote:

and sadly i can't take it seriously anymore, after joking with my friend about him being the "Penis from the Black Lagoon" due to the oh so obvious and rather large crotch bulge he's sporting.

He's a fishmonster, I don't see that kind with a penis. On the other hand, I don't see them with abs either

I think the Reef transformation was pretty cool. I think that was a great direction to take his character and an interesting twist on his previous fate. There never was much clarification before on what had happened to Reef or why Winnowil did what she did. It always did seem odd that she would swim up to another ocean-dwelling elf and just attack him that way. Now it seems that she was doing him a favor-- one he possibly asked for-- and that it went wrong. (Maybe she thought she'd end up with another Tyldak-- a grateful elf to do her bidding-- but he freaked out and swam away mid process?)

I like, also, that he resembles the Creature from the Black Lagoon. That's completely in keeping with the way the comic handles mythos. Elfquest never created any new creatures-- ever. What it's done instead is play around with giving us a new take on traditional monster or fantasy characters. We've had elves (obviously), but also fairies, trolls, werewolves, dire wolves, mermaids, ents, nymphs, vampires, poltergeist, the Pied Piper (stealing children by leading them into a magical mountain that is the home of fairy folk), Native American type nature spirits, and Roswell style conehead aliens.

So now she has added The Creature from the Black Lagoon. I like it. I'm sure that was deliberate visual analogy. It totally fits.

TrollHammer wrote:

I think to myself, why not go just the small added step and make flash animations of the story?  Pull the characters into a pile of arms, legs, hands ,feet, etc, rig up stick figure with the artwork, and flat out animate the series.  It doesnt need to be more than Happy Tree Friends meets How It Should Have Ended but it would make a rough movie or series within reach.

Isn't that how they did Masque of Red Death? If so, i'm glad they didn't for this because I could only stand reading masque for about 5 minutes. I didn't like someone else dictating how long I got to spend on a panel. Maybe they have transferred what worked in that format to the final quest.

Reading the comments about the art here is making me wonder how much of the storytelling success really was the art and the expressions and body language, which is what I always thought Wendy really excelled at.

I thought it was pretty clear, how the Broken One became who he was. What I remember is that Winnowill was suffering after Leetah's aborted healing, and Reef the healer sensed her pain and went to help. And then she lashed out and disfigured him, mind and body.  

No, I don't think this is the form he was always meant to be in, or that he asked Winnowill to do anything for him.  Instead, this is the form he WAS in, for thousands of years-- and this is a way of turning his past pain into present strength.  

And it didn't happen overnight.  Reef was healed for years, but still struggling with how to find who he was now, because he could no longer really be who he was before it happened.  That's reality. That rings true.

But then to find a way to incorporate your past into your present-- to turn it to good instead of evil, to use it for self-empowerment-- that's also truth.  And it's happened to me.

That's why I liked it so much.

KR Wordgazer wrote:

I thought it was pretty clear, how the Broken One became who he was. What I remember is that Winnowill was suffering after Leetah's aborted healing, and Reef the healer sensed her pain and went to help. And then she lashed out and disfigured him, mind and body.  

No, I don't think this is the form he was always meant to be in, or that he asked Winnowill to do anything for him.  Instead, this is the form he WAS in, for thousands of years-- and this is a way of turning his past pain into present strength.  

And it didn't happen overnight.  Reef was healed for years, but still struggling with how to find who he was now, because he could no longer really be who he was before it happened.  That's reality. That rings true.

But then to find a way to incorporate your past into your present-- to find good in it despite the evil, to use it for self-empowerment-- that's also truth.  And it's happened to me.

That's why I liked it so much.

That is beautifully said, KR Wordgazer!

Agree with most of what is said about reuse art, though I understand they're not as noticeable to everyone. To explain why it bothers us: it stop me for getting in the story, it makes it seems less real. Part of it is the difference of line thickness between the characters and background (because she sometimes reuse and change the size of the characters, without changing the line): they don't always blend well with the background or each other. If I can't make myself believe in what I see, it becomes difficult to feel involved in the story. The little details of background characters attitudes was one of the thing that helped make EQ real, to me.

A good way of saving time, in FQ 12, p 11: some characters are just a black shape. It works, I wish Wendy would use that sort of trick more often when she can't draw them all. Or she could draw them with less details. Or not at all! Anything but copy/paste and rigid postures  

Still, interesting to know not everyone see the copy/paste.

KR Wordgazer wrote:

And it didn't happen overnight.  Reef was healed for years, but still struggling with how to find who he was now, because he could no longer really be who he was before it happened.  That's reality. That rings true.

I could easily have missed this through skimming, but when was Reef struggling with himself? Ever since he was healed he seems to have just, you know, kinda been there. Is this inferred character development, or did I miss some conversation he had on the subject?

KR Wordgazer wrote:

I thought it was pretty clear, how the Broken One became who he was. What I remember is that Winnowill was suffering after Leetah's aborted healing, and Reef the healer sensed her pain and went to help. And then she lashed out and disfigured him, mind and body.  

No, I don't think this is the form he was always meant to be in, or that he asked Winnowill to do anything for him.  Instead, this is the form he WAS in, for thousands of years--

Oh!

Sun Girl wrote:

I could easily have missed this through skimming, but when was Reef struggling with himself? Ever since he was healed he seems to have just, you know, kinda been there. Is this inferred character development, or did I miss some conversation he had on the subject?

Yes. Totally. It absolutely has been both implied and shown. Other characters have talked about it and Reef has always acted pretty traumatized. It's clearly stated when he's introduced in the "Final Quest Special" and demonstrated in numerous scenes afterward.

Lunakat wrote:

Yes. Totally. It absolutely has been both implied and shown. Other characters have talked about it and Reef has always acted pretty traumatized. It's clearly stated when he's introduced in the "Final Quest Special" and demonstrated in numerous scenes afterward.

This! The biggest reason this development thrills me is because poor Reef has seemed so lost and sad and apart from the other elves even after his healing. I think at least one of the elves actually still refers to him as the Broken One, which on one hand has got to be a hard habit to break, but it's also telling. He even shies away from Korafay as she jokes with him, and she's apparently his closest friend. She herself obviously feels he needs looking after. So this feels like a really magnificent coming together -- that in the Palace, Reef has discovered within himself the way forward.

I think, on a meta level, I also like that he's chosen a form that is outwardly somewhat monstrous? There's always so much emphasis on the elves' prettiness, and I think this may be the first time in the series where we've seen a sympathetic character embrace their inner self in a way that manifests in a form that's basically a terrifying creature out of the depths. Even Timmain at the end of Shards was still pretty and willowy underneath the teeth and fur.

Hmmm, it's been a long time since I visited... glad to see familiar faces! Trying to make sense of Final Quest, it was looking so great when it started!

Davrille wrote:

I don't think Venka is a "wuss" for reacting to being shot. Being shot hurts, and shoulder wounds, contrary to TV and movies, can be pretty debilitating.

I can vouch for this. I've never been shot, thank gods, but I have landed on my right shoulder repeatedly thanks to falling off horses. I've never even broken it (again, thank gods), and yet now my shoulder is a barometer and has been for years. One to two days before a big weather change, it can cause me a lot of pain.

It's true what medical experts say: A wounded shoulder never really heals. But this is fantasy, so Venka is very lucky she can be flown to Leetah.

Wonder how that will play out. Leetah is away on the Cutter-finding Quest. I'm sort of hoping they are at Winnowill's mercy. This leads to lots of interesting complications. Rayek may be forced to choose between his lover and his daughter. I have good hopes for this storyline at least

We still don't really even know if Reef is essentially being brainwashed by Winnowill from afar or not, since her destroying the village with Rayek is happening right about the same time Reef transformed. I mean it's very nice to think Reef deliberately chose this form for XYZ and to protect others etc., but we don't really know. All we got is one panel of him in that new form and that line and that's it. It's a bit early to say what even happened. Maybe he turns out to be traumatized and is having some weird PTSD all over again now that Winnowill is 'awakened' within Rayek lol.

I found it very odd that he mentioned about having a revelation in the Palace "last night" - considering we saw none of that. Seems it would have made more sense to have the "new knowing" come upon him right there, as he's close to Winnowill's presence, and the whole attack from the Djunsmen is triggering his protective nature/murderous nature/Black Lagoon nature.

Tbh, I'm bad at seeing character development unless it's right in front of me, and this one came out of no where to me in a bad way.

That's true, Wingthing, I just remembered he said the revelation came to him the night before. I guess it was the same night as when stuff went down with Cutter/Timmain or was that in the wee hours of the morning.
Hopefully we'll get some kind of flashback or something with reef talking about what happened that night because it would be kind of awesome to know what got him thinking the night before.

I don't think you're bad at seeing character development, Kathleen. This one did happen out of nowhere. We basically all know Reef has had to live through a very terrible time and was shape changed back to his original form but still had trauma. But for him to change that way suddenly really is wtf


I sort of wish this series came out in a bigger graphic novel format since a whole lot of explaining is constantly required.

You know, this is a big issue I'm having with FQ - we'll get shown something fairly major, like Reef's transformation, with little in the way of lead up, it'll get a panel or two and then BAM were off somewhere else without further exploration. It's like a series of soundbites rather than a coherent whole. If something like this had happened way back when, we'd all be saying "ahhh, yes! There's the scene where Reef had his revelation" (even if it was in the background) rather than "WTF just happened?"

Well, we have different perceptions of these things, but I thought it was fine as presented.  Be that as it may, I wanted to share a few thoughts on other things in this issue.

I was glad Cutter's reaction to Timmain's revelation was at least as negative as mine.  I mean, how can he feel good about any of his accomplishments now?  "My father praised me for thinking things through and answering him with reason-- but maybe that was just Timmain's wisdom.  I unified and led all the elf tribes-- but that was just Timmain's power.  I am open to change and letting things grow-- because Timmain. In a sense, I don't even really exist!"

I don't understand why Wendy Pini is doing this. I hope it will come to make more sense in terms of the overall story, as things progress.

I also really had a problem with Timmain's assessment that no outcome was better than another-- that an outcome where Tam is not destroyed is no better than an outcome where he is.  Destroyed. Not killed.  Meaning that once Tam's body is gone, there will only be Timmain.  How could an outcome where that doesn't happen not be better than one where it does?  

I know Timmain has some sort of esoteric, woo-woo take on these things, but honestly!

The only other problem I really had was the scene with Windkin in Forbidden Grove.  Why does Venka say, "Oh! Windkin! Alighting briefly, before the Palace?"  Does she actually mean, "Hi Windkin! Stopping here for a moment before going back to the Palace?"  I know she often speaks in a formal, stilted manner, but this time what she says hardly even makes sense!  And I still don't care for Windkin's wings.  These look better than the jelly-flaps he had even a few pages back, but how did they change from that to this? And if he could roll them up, how come he hasn't done it till now?

That said, a lot of the issues others have raised didn't really affect me.  The recycling of images, problems with color or depth-- I don't really notice these things, and I imagine a lot of other readers are like me.  Untrained in art, we are unaffected by this sort of thing.

I didn't have a problem with Skywise's response to Timmain's weakness.  Connected to both her and Tam, he can probably sense that Timmain's malaise is quickly passing, while Tam's is really serious.   I didn't have a problem with Aroree and Windkin searching for Cutter from a distance, when Leetah just said they needed to give him some space.

I didn't have a problem with Sunstream letting his family off at the Wavedancer's home.  He wanted to take the whole trible someplace safer-- but Sunstream is no Surge, and he's not going to force the issue.  If they want to go into danger for the sake of keeping their home, he is going to respect them enough to let them.  Even if he's really worried about them, which it's clear he is.

If Leetah had a costume change in the middle of the issue, I couldn't see it.  To me it looked like she was wearing the same thing she wore in the last issue, throughout this one.

Strongbow's open sending seemed entirely in character.  He reminded me of Tevye in Fiddler on the Roof, when he decided his youngest daughter was dead to him. But he's making a huge mistake.  His lifemate is still living, and still wanting to reconcile-- and he still loves her. I hope he will come to see that it's possible for their relationship to adjust to this, if he will let it.

I'm not sure why Venka has to lock eyes with Rayek in order to control Winnowill-- or him.  She's easily stopped both of them before.  Maybe it's the same as in KotBW-- she feels it has to be his choice, and is asking him to signify that by locking eyes with her. Maybe that, too, will be clearer later.

I really wish I could read the whole thing at once rather than this way!  I don't like to judge without having all the facts of the story....

wingthing wrote:

I found it very odd that he mentioned about having a revelation in the Palace "last night" - considering we saw none of that. Seems it would have made more sense to have the "new knowing" come upon him right there, as he's close to Winnowill's presence, and the whole attack from the Djunsmen is triggering his protective nature/murderous nature/Black Lagoon nature.

Even though I'm really liking the development, I agree that it would have been good to have had an additional bridge to get to Reef as before to Reef as now.

I'm a little surprised Chitter (I refuse to call her Freetouch) didn't stay behind with Moonshade. Dart goes back with Mender because Strongbow more or less ordered him to, but couldn't Chitter lend Moonshade some emotional support during this whole awkwardness? They always seemed close - or at least, let me put it this way, Chitter always seemed to stay Moonshade's side or be indifferent whenever Dart remarked on the tension. Considering Strongbow just pulled the elfin equivalent of shouting "I Divorce You!" x 3, it seems the kids might have something to say about that.

Then again, maybe Moonshade is holing up with Crescent's spirit right now, having tea and talking trash about Strongbow's personal hygiene (don't you shed a tear for him, sister! He doesn't deserve it!)

Moonnshade's name is kind of ominous. Was she born next to some belladonna? Some eggplant? Was her name some kind of hint at Strongbow's self undoing?
I'm kidding. Kind of
I know this is never going to happen but I really want a whole issue (or at least half of one) dedicated to whatever it is Moonshade is doing these days. How does she spend her time in the palace? What's replaced the life of being the tribe tanner? Only so many hours can be spent trash walking to Crescent (I'd like to see those panels too, please!). Do she and Anshen (or however his name is spelled) hang out and talk? Is he like, SEE? I told you that stanky getup never suited you, grrrrrl!
What do people in the palace eat? It says the palace provides sustenance. Like what?
I don't know if anyone's ever read any Octavia Butler - in Lilith's Brood, the spaceship was a live organism and the food 'grew' within it. It had trees and even parts of its own being were able to be produced to sustain the life dwelling on there. Specific food for the humans and the aliens , and there were ways to manipulate the ship to create food to their liking.
Is the palace that way? Or do the elves just stop craving food altogether?
I miss seeing Sun Village life. It was so neat.
I'm sort of sad that EQ is pretty much devoid of 'culture' now... or at least there's no scenes showing any real culture. It's like the palace is leeching it out of the elves in a way.
I just miss the 'exploration' and travel. I loved reading about the Go Backs and their culture and the Sun Villagers, and even the humans in the early days. And the Gliders.
Where is all that stuff, I really miss it  
It would be kind of cool if Timmain held some kind of Conehead class and showed what life was like for the elves before in the day to day before they became elves and came to the WoTM. I know they've shown pieces of this but it would be interesting to see more of it in practice. What do elves do in the palace? What do they learn? I want to see! Show me, Wendy! Pleeeease.

Ugh don't mind me, I am really, really overthinking. And I realize I am being very whiny