Final Quest #12

So maybe the original spirit is asleep? Or maybe it became Ember?

All this does explain how and why Timmain knew Starjumper was dead and became a wolf for Skywise.
Trippy.

(Glad you liked that, Red!)

What spirit is asleep, or became Ember?
The spirit Tam "replaced"? I still don't think Tam replaced any spirit, Tam is the spirit of the cub of Grenn and Dehl.

It explains it... how? Did I just explain something without even realising I'd explained it?


(When my head starts writing on her you need to be really worried! )

Oh, that was me playing off the theories of Embala, Krwordgazer and Shadowpath.

Lunakat wrote:

All this does explain how and why Timmain knew Starjumper was dead and became a wolf for Skywise.
Trippy.

Sorry, nope. She became a wolf in reaction to Rayek's banishing of the Go-Backs (instead of, oh, I don't know, actually standing up to him or even sending him a "Stop!"*) and didn't return to High One form until the end of the Second Palace War.

(*Not to blame her for his actions, but there is the question of her INactions... but that question applies to great swathes of EQ at this point.)

manga wrote:

(*Not to blame her for his actions, but there is the question of her INactions... but that question applies to great swathes of EQ at this point.)

Drukkin' THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why didn't she tell him to stop?

I always thought Timmain was conflicted in the Kings story arc because, as much as she knew it was wrong, she wanted Rayek to succeed. It would have saved her and all her friends from a terrible fate. I figure she sort of knew in advance or at least had an inkling of what was likely to happen (based on who she chose for the 'adventure'). At the very least, she knew all along what the cry was. I'm sure she could have guessed what Rayek was likely to do. She wasn't able to make a choice so she sat it out as a wolf and just waited to see what would happen.

I thought her running away/not wanting do to anything was due to her time spent as a low wolf. I got the notion it actually left a mark on her mind.

Hmm. Maybe!

Interesting that the "Wolf Goddess" of Elfquest appears to naturally become the omega in a real wolf pack.
I'm surprised someone hasn't brought that up. " Hey, why are we worshipping this chick who can't even lead a small wolf pack? She apparently didn't have the will or strength to overthrown Warfrost - or didnt consider it important to be the leader, yet now she's making life and death decisions for the entire elfin species? That's not the Way, man!!"

...Strongbow, I am going on record that I will love you forever if you say something like that before FQ wraps up!

There is always a male/female alpha couple, so either she did submit to another female or she was alpha female by default. Well, after Timmorn she never became alpha again or there are more mixed children running around than thought...

wingthing wrote:

...Strongbow, I am going on record that I will love you forever if you say something like that before FQ wraps up!

Now we know why Moonshade is going through her #IneedanewlifeGetridofmywolfblood phase.

Seems Sifra had it right all along; Timmain brainwashing Moonshade to keep Strongbow distracted from exposing the truth to everyone

Bwa ha ha, Kindred!

Kindredsoul wrote:

wingthing wrote:

...Strongbow, I am going on record that I will love you forever if you say something like that before FQ wraps up!

Now we know why Moonshade is going through her #IneedanewlifeGetridofmywolfblood phase.

Seems Sifra had it right all along; Timmain brainwashing Moonshade to keep Strongbow distracted from exposing the truth to everyone

wingthing wrote:

Wait... So for elves life begins BEFORE conception? That's... terrifying, really.

Maybe that's the reason for Recognition Sickness. It's basically the spirit cub going "Mum! Dad! Get a move on and conceive me already!"

Lunakat wrote:

So maybe the original spirit is asleep? Or maybe it became Ember?

Or... it becamse Suntop! Explaining why he, despite being born pureblooded, has a soulname. Maybe the something else Suntop called was a soulname, the spirit that was replaced by Tam.

And no, I still don't think Tam replaced anyspirit. It's not like Grenn and Dehl recognized and then a newborn spirit in the Palace (Klynn or Zheel perhaps) started its journey towards the newly created life, only to be pushed aside by Tam going mine! Rather I think Grenn and Dehl Recognized - well, I know they did - and Tam was born, except from splitting off from Timmain instead of being born from the GFSP*, creating the unique mindlinkedness between Timmain and Tam/Cutter. I don't think Timmain's spirit split on purpose, in fact I think it might've happened as a result of a moment of confusion: "My (wolf)body might die! But my (wolf)body might not die! Aaaaah!"



*Great Flamey Spirit Pool, in case you were wondering...

I don't think he's purely a part of her only, that just seems really one-dimensional. There's too much of a personality issue - I mean, he's got similarities to both his parents' personalities in his choices and it's been stated again and again throughout EQ as well as him having a 'direct line' to them and them guiding him, so how the hell can he just be a missing part of 'Timmain' only?

I'm sorry but it's just increasingly obvious to me that the decision to do this was much later come up with by Wendy, and we're sitting here trying to suspend belief in such a way which doesn't seem like too much of suspension of belief. To make the ends come together. And I guess you can make them come together if you really want but that's going to have to mean discounting a lot of the past story and as a result, the very structure of what makes Cutter who he is as a character is dissolved.

We can sit and sift through possible moments gleaned from the past in EQ and try to make 'sense' of it, but again, that doesn't change the very real probability that Wendy made this decision later and as a result it's undoing the very core who Cutter is and it's like an odd betrayal to the readers because she as a writer loses quite a bit of credibility in doing this.

I agree. And someone said this earlier-- but Winnowil supposedly got to the 'core' of his being in Book 3 and it very clearly showed that he was descended from Timmorn- that his soul was Wolfrider, not High One.

Well his body was made by Bearclaw and Joyleaf. Nobody can deny that. We know Joyleaf really was pregnant and everything, right? They didn't find him in the cabbage? So he's got to have some traits of them. But his soul came from Timmains soul. That's how I understand it, and I think it makes sense that since the memories from his "Timmain" part were unlocked until now, he just showed wolfrider traits.
I'm not saying I like this turn of events. But hopefully there will be a satisfactory explanation in the rest of FQ. This was only a preview after all...

Today I re-read the part of issue 11 where Dart and Mender have their talk about Shushen and I noticed how Dart talked about having been with Shushens spirit in the palace, and how it's not the same as being with him physically. (Well, he didn't say it with so many words, but that's what he meant.) And I got to think about how Wendy wrote that part, too, and that maybe she intended for Timmain (who doesn't want to save elf lives because when they die they go to the palace anyway, or whatever they said) to come across as evil. Hopefully Cutter will come back to kill her after his freak out!

Murder in Elfquest? Interesting!

been there, done that. or have we forgotten Strongbow's angst over killing Kureel?

plus Cutter did come oh so close to beating and strangling Rayek to death.

oh and Dodia clubbing Door to death.

Lunakat, I was thinking of that exact same part - when he and Winnowill almost killed each other, and how she saw his soul and being Timmorn pretty much.

I'm sure there'll be some twist it so the ends that come out 'right' - oh but the core is a wolf! Like Timmain was! omg!

Except, Sifra, that the attributes of Joyleaf and Bearclaw are then purely genetic only in terms of personality. I would think the core is also part of it. I mean then it's like well of course he is like them, he is related. But they have been shown as 'guides' in the past. Also being central in the overthrowing of Madcoil. It's just a big chunk. I know it was so long ago but it was a crucial point in Cutter, not to mention the time he almost died after being bitten by that rodent or whatever lmao.
There's just too much here which does not add up. I call BS. Wendy is going to try (maybe) to make this make more sense (omg they are elves so everything is different for them you guys ).

Seriously, where were his parents during all of this? It's a little detail which is strangely absent from the story and it needs to be accounted for otherwise yuck.
Sorry to sound so negative. Just over the past week going over this several times has felt like seriously wtf in terms of story. It serves nothing in story.

Well, it's self-serving. There's that.

Yes, I do hope Timmain dies lol.

Zadzi, I'm in agreement. I… personally think there is no doubt Wendy came up with this idea very late in the game. Like, when she started planning Final Quest. At the earliest. It honestly feels like Final Quest itself isn't fully planned out more than a few issues ahead of time, though maybe that's just my pessimism talking.
It's really the attitude of "Look how WELL this was planned out and foreshadowed from the very beginning! How CLEVER!" that is the most irritating thing of all. It's really-pretty-bad writing being held up as great writing. Maybe that's just the effect of all Thornbrake's comments on EQ.com.

Thornbrake wastes no time in making everything seem it's perfect even with large holes. Guys guys it makes sense, see?
Nothing can ever be questionable in the writing and the 'hey looks guys, no it's awesome' crap is just tiresome. You're accountable for the full story, period. I get loyalty and I even get blind loyalty. What I hate is denial.

Oh I have no doubt that this was not planned from the beginning. FQ feels rushed to me. A lot of elements in it feel to me like they make sense, but the Pini's just don't know how to show that off. It feels like they've forgotten how to tell a story.
If the soul-sharing thing will make sense, I don't know. It will without a doubt be hard to make anyone who is not a "blind loyalty" kind of fan believe in it, I think, and if it had been my story I would have never incorporated it.