Final Quest #17

The issue where Timmain revealed Cutter is basically her avatar and the middle man* in the Timmain/Skywise romance is where threw up my hands.
I'm mainly read it to look at the background characters.

*I think placeholder might work better considering he's there to establish and maintain a relationship with Skywise until the point Timmain could return and take his place.

Zadzi wrote:

My question is, Is there a point where people here sort of started giving up on the comic once FQ kicked in? I'm curious as to when, or if they are still waiting, or if they are actually happy with the progressions?

Personally, I was tentatively on-board with the prequel. I don't love Wendy's present style as much as her OQ stuff, but I gave up wishing she'd go back a long time ago. She has a right to move on, and it seemed like an improvement on the last two graphic novels. I very strongly disliked the first "chapter" of FQ--the recognition/captured Ember arc. The main problem, for me, was the story. I just could not stop asking "why"--why is Teir thinking about babies and sex right now? Why are they having this fight? Why can't the palace rescue Ember? Why is Ember able to repress recognition? Quite a bit of the art in this section was nice, but the story just puzzled me. I found the whole Tam/Timmain arc surprising and retconny, however the art surrounding Cutter's mental break was really beautiful and interesting.

I'm still reading because I love these characters and I want to see what happens to them, for good or for ill. Like you, Zadzi, I don't relate to the story on a personal level at all--a big change from the OQ! The story is more interesting to me as a dissection specimen than as compelling fiction. I'm a writer myself. I like to understand when and why stories work or don't work.

Bluetree wrote:

Conversely, I'm not seeing much jealousy at all. What I perceive most often are people having an issue with the downturn of overall quality compared to the OQ, and (to a lesser extent, although it's a huge one for me personally) how badly W&R handle any feedback other than Stepford-wife-level bootlicking.

Your entire post puts it perfectly.

As for that strange Mender story, that was right around the period when I finally gave up following what I think of as the "EQ extended universe"--sanctioned by W&P, but clearly not carefully overseen by them. At a certain point, you could tell no one was steering the ship. In retrospect, I do sometimes wish they had not authorized many of the secondary series, however it probably brought in a steady income while they attended to other projects. I get their decision from a financial perspective, but I think it weakened the EQ "brand" overall and led to a lot of loose ends and unintended complications. The quality just varied so enormously.

Zadzi wrote:

My question is, Is there a point where people here sort of started giving up on the comic once FQ kicked in?

Give up on EQ? Never.

Give up on FQ? ... no, rather not and I don't know what it would cost to make me give up. I stay, I read ... I simply wait for the conclusion. For an understanding that might come - or not. And beyond FQ ... yes, I would follow another tale of EQ - more probably if it will happen on the WoTMs instead of in the Palace / in space. Don't know how long ... but I would follow first ...

But I'm strange. I did not enter the FQ with highest expectations. What I've expected is simple - a creator written solution of a tale I love, new adventures and developement for beloved characters - and new characters, even one or more new tribes and cultures.

Yes I'm disappointed that there are hardly ANY new chars (though I can understand practical and personal limits) and hunger for more information and screen time for those fungus-zombies now.
Yes, I'm not fond of the recent coloring ... or the computer coloration at all. I simply don't fall for this modern stuff, no matter what comic.

The recent quality of coloring ... it's puzzling - irritating - weird that it makes me think: "You could do this too with some learning!"  Not that I would actually be able to ... or will take an effort to learn coloration techniques ...
... but in former times of EQ even the thought would have been blasphemic for me. Totally OUT OF THOUGHT. I was in awe.

I fell in love. With the art, the coloring ... the character diversity in look and behavior ... the story. Guess it didn't help that EQ was and is the ONLY comic to hook me completely. I lack comparism.

Sad knowledge ... I'm aware that I would not fall in love with EQ nowadays ... with the Final Quest as my first encounter. I'm not curious anymore. Not exited. Sometimes disappointed or totally lost. But when it would end right now - I would be sad. Very sad.
Maybe I stay because I'm bound to it like Recognition will leave a connection after the bloodsong turned into a distant whisper.

I see the flaws. I understand part of the criticism. I had my share of frustration and grief with the handling of the SoC, my experiance of anxiety and self-doubts due to encounters with Mr. Pini and his "Chosen Ones".

I still love EQ. I like the FQ enough to miss it if it would come to an abrupt end. It's kind of a victory for me that I'm still here. Still call myself a fan. I still find beauty and pleasure in the art. I still find lovely background scenes and expressive front scenes. Even more than expected when I look for motives to play with.
And I wait ... wait with the faint hope to understand the story in retrospect when the whole tale is told.


... and I babble

Great babble, Embala. Very honest en I like how you talk about your love for Elfquest.

I still want to read FQ because it's the last story and I want to know how it ends. And I buy every Elfquest series that features Dart. It's not one of my favorite EQ series.
Some aspects of it are a bit dissapointing to me, but I like other parts. The art of the scenes where Cutter is crazy is cool. I like the Fungus Elfs, and I hope they will get more time. I also really loved the pic where Dart and Mender cuddled. I don't like Strongwhine and Moonbore anymore, and I dislike the copy-pasting and the TimTam thing, and Timmain really creeps me out and I never had that feeling with her before.
I really appreciate it that Wendy makes this story. Elfquest has been very important in my life, ever since my mother forbade me to read it , I don't mind that there are series in it that I like less that others.

Seriously beautiful 'babble', Embala <3

Sifra: Strongwhine/Moonbore

*chuckles*

Thanks for your kind support and for sharing your own thoughts, Sifra. And your love.

Embala wrote:

Give up on EQ? Never.

This.

Embala wrote:

But I'm strange. I did not enter the FQ with highest expectations.

I had forgotten the splash-page concept of the "Ultimate Quest." But Wendy was doing Masque, there was talk of pushing along the  movie, and I figured they'd put out a series when they were ready.

Embala wrote:

I still love EQ. I like the FQ enough to miss it if it would come to an abrupt end.

Again, this. We share many of the same feelings and opinions.

And you can babble anytime.

If EQ comes to an end-- will that be the of the forum as well? Would we still all come here, I wonder?

I haven't really given up on FQ, but I have lowered my expectations. I was thinking about this lately as I was on a bender for another fantasy series that I love, how just an allusion to it will make me pick up the books again and start reading, and what the attration is. I guess it comes down to how immersive an experience it is when you really love a story. You know the people, the landscape, the cultures. It really does become an alternate reality for you, and for however long you can spend in the story, you are THERE.

That's how the OQ was for me growing up. I really hoped that the FQ would be a return to that, but I just think too much time has passed for it to even be possible.

I guess I'm maybe lucky because I already feel like I had the same experience when KOTBW came out. I didn't even know that the Pini's had continued on with the story, I just came across an issue while perusing the local bookstore, and I was like "What the hell?" The issue was almost half the size of the original quest issues and all favorite characters- my friends - were sporting these punk 80's hairstyles and clothes. I remember just feeling really betrayed. It was like meeting an old friend and realizing that you had grown in very different ways.

So that's how it still is for me, like spending time with an old friend. We've gone our different ways and I don't feel the closeness we once had, but I won't give up an opportunity to spend some time with them and catch up on how life is going for them now.

I'm sad that it's not the immersive experience it once was, and I'm afraid of how knowledge gained in the final quest might color my experience of re-reading the OQ, but I find that I can't not read it. For good or bad, I need to know what's going to happen.

Lunakat wrote:

If EQ comes to an end-- will that be the of the forum as well? Would we still all come here, I wonder?

I think so. I actually think that it's kind of funny that it seems like a lot of fan creativity died when the final quest began. So , however the quest ends, I hope that people will pick back up in imagining thier own interpretations of the world and the characters.

Visiting an old friend you once were close to like no other ... and then life took different pathes - I can relate to this. The friend has changed ... and I have changed, too. I still care very much for this friend and I want his very best. And I wish to embrace him ... but it doeasn't feel so natural anymore. And I want to yell at him for this or that decision and turn - but I know that it is not my right to do so. And we share memories  ... hoping to some of the closeness qull come back.

Outlier wrote:

it seems like a lot of fan creativity died when the final quest began.

The way I've experienced it fan activity , fan creativity and fan interaction was actively discouraged.

Embala wrote:

Visiting an old friend you once were close to like no other ... and then life took different pathes - I can relate to this. The friend has changed ... and I have changed, too. I still care very much for this friend and I want his very best. And I wish to embrace him ... but it doeasn't feel so natural anymore. And I want to yell at him for this or that decision and turn - but I know that it is not my right to do so. And we share memories  ... hoping to some of the closeness qull come back.

Outlier wrote:

it seems like a lot of fan creativity died when the final quest began.

The way I've expieranced it fan activity , fan creativity and fan interaction was actively discouraged.

I think it took one hell of punch when Wendy said the forum was 'cluttered', which as far as I'm concerned, mean she saw/sees everything we do as trash.

I don't remember that, but she did start that thread where she invited people to post their imagining's of the characters for final quest. And they did have those fan art Friday contests. They do post pictures on FB occasionally, although I think it's funny that they are mostly pulling up pictures from deviant art and other websites instead of having their own forum for sharing anymore, and a lot of the art is pretty old.

Her saying it was "cluttered" offends me more because it feels like they did everything possible to sabotage the EQ forum, then complained about the effects before shutting it down. Maybe they just wanted an excuse to start fresh. I know I check out the FB page sometimes and there will be a discussion going on and I'll think, hey, I remember having that discussion.

Maybe they were hoping to get a lot of new fans, and didn't want them to feel like they were coming late to the party. Although I wish they'd been able to do that without making all the old fans feel like they were hung out to dry.

Rob/Heather/Thornbrake (cannot tell them apart in memory) worded it more or less this way:
We will discourage unwanted activity.
We will encourage wanted activity. We will bring up recommended threads.

They sort of shredded what was build up on the Scroll - the art galleries, the fanfic pages (be it for unfortunate coincidence or disregard) - and then they asked for "do this, draw that". And they occationally bring up "artwork by I-don't-know-who" on FB ... art I partly remember from the SoC and could identify. They may have the right to do so (due to copyright and SoC terms of business) but it makes me sad.

They gave me the impression that everything that was not "actively encouraged" was discouraged. Or simply ... clutter, trash ... ballast for the true goal. If this is overreaction please bear with me. That's how it struck me. That's how it sticks in mind ... and hurts. It has paralyzed my activities both in commenting and creativity. Til now.

My devil on the right shoulder keeps telling:
"It's not worth the effort. You can love EQ without stressing yourself and fail in the eyes of the beholder."
I was a fan for 20  years before I've found the SoC and other fans. I had some wonderful years there. Things change.
I want to remember the good times. I don't want to be reduced to a promotional useful tool. I want to be the fan I am.

Outlier wrote:

Maybe they were hoping to get a lot of new fans, and didn't want them to feel like they were coming late to the party. Although I wish they'd been able to do that without making all the old fans feel like they were hung out to dry.

This.


I apologize for being negative again. I don't want to remember the ways of the last change ... don't want to feel like such a failure again ... please excuse me when I drop out of this discussion.

They do post (often old) fan art on FB, and they don't ask the artist's permission to do so either. I know because they pulled some of mine off DeviantArt- I know they took it from there because it was credited to my DA username. I guess they feel they have the right because the characters are theirs, but I felt it was bloody rude not to ask. The characters may be theirs but the artwork was mine.

it feels like they did everything possible to sabotage the EQ forum, then complained about the effects before shutting it down.[/quote]
I believe they actively made the shutdown happen. I was gone by that point, but I did find the thread that lead to the shut down and I've heard other people say Richard went in and restarted an old discussion.

Outlier wrote:

Maybe they were hoping to get a lot of new fans, and didn't want them to feel like they were coming late to the party.

I always thought that they likely hoped those new fans would be more controllable.

Outlier wrote:

she did start that thread where she invited people to post their imagining's of the characters for final quest.

The most cynical part of me says she did that to get inspiration.

Outlier wrote:

And they did have those fan art Friday contests.

Of course they would. They would want new fans to think 'hey they're invested in their community and like things inspired by their own work! I'll check out some more stuff!'

Outlier wrote:

They do post pictures on FB occasionally, although I think it's funny that they are mostly pulling up pictures from deviant art and other websites instead of having their own forum for sharing anymore, and a lot of the art is pretty old.

I remember there being some sentiment that they didn't want to bother with a forum and the 'clutter' there would be for them to go through. Them mainly using DA makes perfect sense.

Yes, they used one of my drawings from Deviantart, too. I didn't mind that they never asked, and I liked the idea that they liked my work. (But I would probably have gone if someone had done the same thing with one of my OC's...)
They never used one of my comics. I think if they have ever seen them, they probably hate them. Well, whatever...

Embala wrote:

Rob/Heather/Thornbrake (cannot tell them apart in memory) worded it more or less this way:
We will discourage unwanted activity.
We will encourage wanted activity. We will bring up recommended threads.

That's some impressive megalomania.

Quote :

I apologize for being negative again. I don't want to remember the ways of the last change ... don't want to feel such a failure again ... please excuse me when I drop out of this discussion.

Please don't drop out! I'm very sorry. I keep vowing not to bring this stuff up anymore, but can't seem to help myself.
I really want to move on, focus on the good, and help make this place welcoming so more people will participate.

For me, one of the funnest things about this forum was being able to speculate about the EQ world and bounce ideas around and get inspiration. Like Red was saying earlier, I don't want to get bogged down in what's wrong, but talk more about what we're learning and where the story is going. Unfortunately, that is probably the biggest failure of the final quest for me. It just seems like there''s no real meat in it. I never get the feeling of "Wow, what's going to happen next?"

The big reveals just don't seem that big. And some I just don't know what to make of or how they fit in my understanding of the world.

So I guess that's a big draw for me to continue reading - hoping to get some answer's about why these developments are important and will it all be pulled together at the end. It feels like there was always a goal in the original quest - well, a quest, I guess - and I may not have known how we were getting there, but I had some idea where we were going. "Let's go look for other elves!" Great!

When I think about the final quest, I feel like I have no idea where it''s going.

So i'm hoping it will make some sense, and soon.

Outlier wrote:

Please don't drop out! I'm very sorry. I keep vowing not to bring this stuff up anymore, but can't seem to help myself.
I really want to move on, focus on the good, and help make this place welcoming so more people will participate.

Sounds so familiar to me, Outlier. Don't worry, I have my own little devil on the shoulder ... and ways to put him back in the box.

I think they are just randomly pulling almost everything they find from Deviantart and using it over and over again. Sorry, but I don't think they are being that discriminating. Also-- I think Heather and Rob and maybe David are doing it-- I think they are probably largely maintaining the Facebook pages for the Pinis. I think that posting fan art is a (fairly clever) way to keep the pages feeling like they are fresh and constantly delivering something for fans... so that when the next issue comes out, everyone is still watching and interacting. But yeah-- I've seen them use the same work multiple times in different months. And it's old stuff. I still think it's good for the Pinis that they got someone to handle their social media for them. I think what they are doing is smarter now than before. I don't think they had to shut the forum down to do it, but oh well. It got them what they are after. Facebook is for "likes" and subscribers. Forums are for conversations.

*nod* And FTH is for us.

yay!

Stargazer wrote:

They do post (often old) fan art on FB, and they don't ask the artist's permission to do so either. I know because they pulled some of mine off DeviantArt- I know they took it from there because it was credited to my DA username. I guess they feel they have the right because the characters are theirs, but I felt it was bloody rude not to ask. The characters may be theirs but the artwork was mine.

Well, that sure seems disrespectful. I don't suppose they're providing links back to the artists' DeviantArt pages?