Final Quest #21

I think Aurek's new look is meant as spite towards those who liked his appearance in the Kahvi mini series.

Dodia's son (awful design) seems to wear semi-transparent loin cloth as well, they go really well with his blue copy/paste jewelry

I've never cared much for Skywise, but he's really bugging me now. Since the beginning he's talked about his desire to travel to the skies. Now Cutter is saying go, and Skywise is throwing a little fit. "Don't you care!?" He's like the standard stereotype of a PMS-y woman.

Ever since the end of S@BM, all the way until FQ, it's really bugged me that the Gliders "never wanted to be part of this world". I'm like, stop being so freakin' emo. Suicide is not the way out. YOU HAVE A PHYSICAL EXISTENCE, DEAL WITH IT.

…which, anyone who's read "Return to Innocence" knows how I dealt with that particular thorn in my paw.

Gliders have always been very 'emo', yes, I agree.

As for Skywise...well, I agree... he's being very codependent again in regards to Cutter, and his whole abandonment thing is flaring up once again like a hemorrhoid . The only thing is, I actually did like that last page of this issue. I liked the artwork. It was the most 'real' page in the entire issue, I felt. Skywise really did seemed grieved, and you know, in this case , I really can't blame him. I mean, what the hell is going on, that Cutter hasn't even told him about the Timmain thing? The only time we've been shown Cutter sort of starting to reveal it to Leetah, she was like Sssshhh, let me feel my way around this, and also, don't disturb my orgasm. Those were gorgeous pages, but they were the only pages we only got a small peek of Cutter expressing something which, let's face it, is a HUGE deal. I just feel we're complete voyeurs at this point, and like we''re being toyed with. Like, Oh, wouldn't you like to see that reveal being shared? It feels very deliberately controlled, like the writing is somehow deliberately conspiring to make us all see something at a very specific time, and not before then. Just get to the damn point, already. It doesn't flow and doesn't feel organic when you've got these characters who were drawn as very close from the beginning suddenly keeping secrets and seeing another suffer for it, and then saying nothing. It's just coming off like super controlling and more like possible plot moving device for future scenes.

Cutter, no doubt, is a dick. If he were still conflicted about this revelation, that he is part Timmain, yes, then I would understand why he doesn't talk to the people closest to him, his family. But Cutter made peace yet he still doesn't talk neither to his wife nor his 'brother in all but blood', and this doesn't make sense, especially since this revelation also affects them! And it is not consistent with the Cutter we got shown until FiQu.

Let's be honest, Skywise was always some kind of appendix to Cutter. If we, as the reader, would like Skywise any less, we would get annoyed by that kind of character. Cutter, also, always needed him not as much as Skywise needed Cutter.
It's a pity that Timmain turned out to be some Cutter-update, it would be more interesting, if Skywise was able to graduate from his appendix status.

Quick question:
Would it be okay if I updated the relevant character profiles now, or should I wait a little bit?

Miss Gillespie wrote:

But Cutter made peace yet he still doesn't talk neither to his wife...

Uhm... he did (start) telling her about it, right after their Recognition; she told him she was feeling her way through it.
As for Skywise; the way this issue ended kinda made me think that Cutter is just about to tell.

Quote :

Gliders have always been very 'emo', yes, I agree.

Mountaindew: *laces the Gliders' wine with Prozac*

Something else I really wonder, how can being a spirit *possibly* feel better than having skin? You don't have dopamine, serotonin, or other neurotransmitters without a body. Is being incorporeal one giant orgasm combined with the taste of biting into a fresh gyro and following it with cold Dr. Pepper? I don't get it.

I fully agree with most of these comments. I think Elfquest has jumped the shark at this point. The entire issue felt kind of pointless-- everything felt incredibly contrived, except for the last page.

The final page was the only one that felt emotionally real, and not like a pointless plot contrivance. Nothing made much sense-- short of wrapping things up. Door showing up was a blip. He was just there to wrap up the forevergreen arc. I don't know why he had to disappear like that-- why? He couldn't stay for a few minutes to get to know his son? Maybe it was foreshadowing of what the elves are going to become... I liked the idea of him turning into a cone head and vibrating out of existence. But the execution was so clunky. And if Redlance had chosen to die, I would have slapped myself. Not because it would have been tragic-- but because it would have been, also, so pointless.

As it was-- the fire just seemed like a diversion as well. It happened and it was over. So what? No repercussion--  unless there  is some fall out from Nightfall telling off the men... but did we need a forest fire for that? Everything is just so much build up with so little pay off. There's also the question of why would Redlance die to protect a grove he's only just met (does he really fall in love that easily? Poor Nightfall!)-- especially after telling everyone that fire is good, and having established that the elves who live there can be easily relocated. Why would Nightfall even ask? Why Nightfall-- why?

The last page was the only emotionally resonant page. If you've ever broken up with a best friend type friend-- this really is what it feels like. At least it was like this for me-- having been on both ends of it at different times. There's always someone who is more invested at the moment-- and the person who is pulling away. If you in the Skywise role, it's confusing and it sucks. Your previously intimate friend suddenly becomes a cipher. Maybe you know why-- maybe you don't. Depends on how that person rolls.

As for Cutter-- yeah, he is totally being a dick. Why wouldn't he (or Timmain!) have told Skywise at this point? But whatever. Maybe he's just at the point in life at which "what's best for Tam" means being a bit of a dick to his overattached friend who really needs to go get his own life.

As far as getting his own life is concerned, Skywise really did have that undermined by the whole "Tammain" thing. I kind of hate that. It would have been nice for him to break away from Cutter. You know... character development and all. As it is, Cutter's little speech-- wise at it may be-- doesn't really apply. If Cutter and Timmain are one, then Skywise really can eat his whole bag of dreamberries and have them too. Someone just needs to tell him that.

Sadachbia wrote:

Something else I really wonder, how can being a spirit *possibly* feel better than having skin? You don't have dopamine, serotonin, or other neurotransmitters without a body. Is being incorporeal one giant orgasm combined with the taste of biting into a fresh gyro and following it with cold Dr. Pepper? I don't get it.

Maybe it's just more peaceful and zen.

Looking at Harotim again ... WHY does he look so familiar to me? Especially in the full body shot - his facial expressin, the pose, the almost seductive entry ...
I believe to recognize it next moment ... but this moment never comes. Pretty sure it was not EQ I connect to him.


Thanks for the feedback on "elder offspring", Sadachbia. I also thought that Yun was significantly older than her sire after the long sleep. Then there was a discussion on this topic and that it might have been only a few years (or even less) between the disappearance of the Palace and Kahvi's raid. At some point I gave up to figure out that timeline and completely forgot about this issue.
Skywise's remark would prove a significant time span passed before Yun was put into wrapstuff. And it makes much more sense this way than the idea of Timmain being secretly pregnant!

btw: I'm with you about pointless "suicide" and the obscure advantages of spirit life. Maybe we'll have to live several millennia to understand. ^^

Redhead Ember wrote:

Quick question:
Would it be okay if I updated the relevant character profiles now, or should I wait a little bit?

Go for it, Redhead ... before I do it! ^^
The character section was always a spoiler zone by definition.

Regarding this "becoming incorporeal" thing, if I was writing the story (which, of course, I'm not), I would use the idea to hammer home the point, that the elves are alien and not human. That for the elves this constant 'kumbayah'-state is something great, that becoming a spirit makes this experience even more complete, not having a body is something desirable. Remember when Timmain send to Strongbow the first time? Why not show how the palace elves loose the borders between you and I? The elves could be some kind of non-expansionist Borg.

However, in most cases* the elves are presented as the better humans. Since the reader tends to see them as not-that-flawed humans, the reader has problems this whole palace-cult storyline





*elves are different, when the authors try to explain, why offspring of close relatives are no issue, or why making Ruffle pale is no whitewashing.

Now that I had the opportunity to look at it myself: I didn't think it was as horrible as people portrayed it here.

I concur that Door's appearance is of questionable necessity. Yes, he wasn't the most pivotal and remembered character. To bring him back and dissolve him / kill him off to fix loose ends, ummmm, maybe. But then, indeed, it did not create the big drama that everyone was afraid of / looking for / expecting [*]. But moreover, in my eyes, why fix ends and then introduce another new character? I think it might be more like:

Wendy: Awww, I have a fancy new idea for a on of these half-transparent-dresses, they're much easier to do with the aid of a computer program these days (than i the past) - and I need someone to try it on.
Others: Yeah, um, let's make a new character for this. Let's just say ... flips through character portfolio... Door had a son...

Well, apart from that it was mostly okay. I don't share the blaming of characters for being clingy or looking dependent. Teir is fine for me (come on, that poor thing suffers from recognition and being his own grandfather or something, and Ember just shakes it off cause she thinks she's got to be the tough girl now). And so is Skywise (ok for me). It's part of his character (development) that he was easygoing in the past, but now, he is on a crossroad of life and insecure which way to go and being scared stiff about the consequences. Stay with his soul brother, family and whatnot, or fly (with) a palace to the stars that always called him, with his blood brethren?
I think it is okay that he's confused, scared, clinging to both and crying about it.
I also liked the last page.

In retrospect still a lot of things seem rushed. Old threads tied and closed, but new things ripped open at the same time. Lots of jumps, hectical cuts like modern movies, questions partially answered, but two new openend. I wish they felt they had more time to bring things to a good finish.


[*] Expectations and esp. unfulfilled expectations are what makes us unhappy often. Iirc. there was an announcement of character death and everyone fantasized about it being Redlance or a Preserver or ... and then it was "just" Door. I often help myself by expecting not much (or even the worst) and then better being positively surprised.

Quote :

*elves are different, when the authors try to explain, why offspring of close relatives are no issue, or why making Ruffle pale is no whitewashing.

So much this. I'm uncomfortable at the fact the Sun Folk are getting paler. Let them get taller, that's fine, but don't turn them into wypipo.

I also headcanon that the elves have more than 23 pairs of chromosomes, so if relatives breed together, there's a lower chance that bad allele matches happen. It would also explain why hair colours and eye colours skip a generation or two; there are just a bunch of extra alleles in a given elf's genome, moreso than in humans, and they don't have to be expressed to be passed on to offspring. E.g. Cutter's pale hair skipped Suntop and went to Korafay, combining with the green hair from Brill's father Haze, and Korafay got the green-eyes gene from Haze and from Leetah. It could also be that there are random mutations in every generation, chalked up to the fact that the elf-shape is artificial and who knows how the Firstcomers got their phenotype to stick to one thing.

jaRf wrote:

Expectations and esp. unfulfilled expectations are what makes us unhappy often. Iirc. there was an announcement of character death and everyone fantasized about it being Redlance or a Preserver or ... and then it was "just" Door. I often help myself by expecting not much (or even the worst) and then better being positively surprised.

Sounds familair to me. I've basically stopped to care for all this yip-yap-ohsoexiting-advertisement. Sadly it almost "turned off" my curiosity, too.

About the death ... I'm happy that it wasn't someone prominet. I don't like it when chars I fell in love with are killed (tho I'm aware that a good story may demand for this at times). And I'm not eager to see "casual" death to to make a story more realistic. (I don't expect much realism of my stories - there is enough reality in real life - just that it fits within the story context.)

In fact I don't want to see anyone die ... that's why a "pointless" death is so annoying for me. And I neither get the dramaturgic necessities nor the narrative point of the recent fatalities. No one seems to care much - not even kin and closest family. "Hey look s/he is a happy spirit now frolocking in the Palace!"

Maybe Miss Gillespie hit a a point - I cannot rely to the elves switching between "another kind of humans" and "absolute aliens" like Moonshade switches. ON. Off. ON. Off. On ... *oops* OFF.

@Embala: from your post I get that Elfquest is something of a save place for you, a place where things are alright. There is nothing wrong with that. But here -probably- lies a major difference between certain groups of fans. There are some, like me, to whom Elfquest is just a story and who are looking for a good narrative and there are some, to whom Elfquest is some kind of a mental refuge.

A good story does not need death and destruction. Psychological or political dramas don't (House of Cards would work better without the murders). But, IMHO, Elfquest doesn't lend itself to that kind of story telling. All stories have some kind of conflict at it's core, otherwise they are pointless. A story without conflict is just regular life.
The only kind of conflict without 'death and destruction' kinda possible for EQ would be interpersonal conflict. But then, elves generally tend to get along pretty well. They don't know jealousy or greed or hate. Recognition is, in most cases, a no-brainer as well. If you don't want to raise the child, let the tribe do it. You don't want to be with your 'recognised spouse', well, you don't have to*.

@Embala: I don't mean to be disparaging, but maybe a 'fairy tale style' storytelling would suit you best. "Some conflict arises, the heroes conquer it, everything is fine in the end". Most stories used to work this way. In recent years this changed a bit, TV shows and movies try to be grittier (the hero is torn, people die and everyone wears dark colours).
Of course, I'm not calling for pointless death either. Game of Thrones is a good example how to do it wrong. While the main characters wear inch-thick plot armour, minor characters are killed of for shock value, their deaths are pointless (in the books, deaths serve a point and plot armour is way thinner). 'Death with stakes' would mean, that danger is real, things can go wrong.

Last but not least: apparently most of us are reading FiQu for the sake of completion. I mean, think about the advise "have no expectations at all, that helps when reading the story". We are investing a lot of time and money in something that's not enjoyable! Quite stupid, isn't it



*BTW, let's face it, recognition is romanticised rape

Game Of Thrones is awesome, how dare you.

PS - GRRM always kills off people gleefully. Not just minor characters. He's just written himself into a corner with that kind of thing lol. I'm glad HBO took over. I've read the books. I prefer the series.

Elfquest doesn't need to be nicer or have more or less deaths, it just needs to stop being an exhibitionist. There's a very 'look at me, look at the stuff I do' kind of self consciousness about it now that it didn't have before. It looks like age anxiety actually. Am I still cool? Am I still hip? Let me do put this stuff in and show that I am still cool. It used to be really unsell-conscious and just had this nice flow. I didn't agree with all of it or always loved it, but it was pretty great and original and kind of let the characters do their own thing. Now it's like the Master Creator has come in and done some kind of weird chess move stuff which feels really heavy-handed and really dull. There's so, so SO much buildup and barely a blip in terms of payoff. That's why we're all talking about deaths, we think maybe the deaths would mean something. But they don't. They're manipulative tools to manipulate people into caring a certain way. It feels really obvious. It's like I was watching a shadow puppet show and someone turned on the light and well, I can see your hand moving around like that, it looks really silly now.

Not disparaging at all, Miss Gillespie. *chuckles* Yes, I like reading fairytales (or stories which go this style) and enjoy it. I know to choose my stories (prose, movie, TV-show) for this purpose: diving into a "fairy tale" conciously, traveling this mental refuge, and then returning to real life. I was like this since my early teens - Two worlds. Life and fiction. Carefully kept apart.
I did not long for much realism in my stories ... and did not expect much romance in life. Then I learned that there is another kind of expectation to a story, too. My mother, who disliked most fiction because it was "unreal" started to follow a show "because it was so true-to-life". What she enjoyed most was boring for me - or annoyed me. Learnt. Different ways to enjoy a story. Different kind of fan expectations. I know it and there is nothing wrong about it. Different tastes.
Of course I don't ask for sweets only - there should be suger and salt and pepper and spices, some sour and bitter for variety - but I prefer a well digestable story meal. And choose carfully according to my current appetite.


Elfquest started out as a "mere fairy tale" for me - I was a mid-twen and almost ashamed to buy a comic. A children's book. The story grabbed me much more than just the pleasant art that attracted my eye first.
Then One-Eye died ... and I was almost shocked by the death of a background character. *Oh nooo - please let it not be true. He cannot be dead!* I went all the way with Clearbrook - mourning ... HOPES ... and Acceptance. It had meaning. For the characters. For the reader (at least for me). And it was an integral part of the story. If someone would tell me: "We'll rewrite the One-Eye part the way you like." I'd say: "Leave it like it is. It's well done!"

It made clear that there is real danger. That death can happen. Not on a regular dose but it must be expected. It made me worry each Elf when there were dangers ahead, increased suspense and curiosity.
Then there was Vaya. I've worried and hoped for her just like I did for One-Eye. Yif's death in war, infant death and death of old age ... casual. Not shocking but congruously. Not causing high emotions but it was always shown as a loss, mirrored in expressions and actions of the survivors. Another war - and logically some more death. Skot, Zhantee and Winnowill too ... they all were somehow meaningful. Even Surge had a consequent build up for me.

I was prepared for more death - gentle Redlance? daring Nightfall? For quite some time (since the middle of Original Quest) I was sure that Cutter would go full circle and die in the end of the story, passing over the heritage to Ember. Then my bets were on Skywise or Leetah or both. And I was fine with it. Even if my favorite Strongbow would have bitten the dust - I'd not complained. You'd never hear me wailing "NOOOOOO! You are not allowed to kill off my darling. I hate YOUUUUUU!
Back then I could accept it as a part of story - sad but well motivated.

Then came Final Quest.

Tyldak's death was touching. I've kinda disliked Kahvi's final game - but it was in-character and I can rely to her wish to end it. Ruffel's death was the last one that had an impact on me and where I can see a meaning for the story.

Krim. Expiery-date-NOW Krim. I admit. Her death caused emotion. It annoys me.
It's Go-Back way not to fear death? Great! It's Go-Back way to die young usually? Okay. But you ... were you so desperate to grow old that you've seen a fight and went all "That's my best chance to find a fun fight and meet a fancy death! NOoooooooOW!" How old are you, girl? About 600 years give or take? You have a loving lifemating and a young son - doesn't this count? I want to slap her - "Couldn't you at least TRY to KILL the Djun? Or ... feel some regret that you didn't succeed to do so instead of boasting about your cool prank to castrate him? Giving him 10 or more years to live and plot and inject his poison into his followers?"
Not even Pike and Sust were a big help to connect emotionally. After a truely beautifully drawn death scene and a moment of mourning Pike was all: My lifemates live in the Palace and I'll move closer to them. (came across much like: Family lives in Australia now. I'll move to New Zealand.)
Your death was uncool, girl. Useless. Unnecessary. It not even had story relevance. With Angrif Djun or nutless Djun or -meanwhile - another Djun the Humans are after the Elves.

An unkown Elf died on her way to the Palace. Should this matter? Nooooo, not at all. Her bolt spirtit made it to the Palace anyway *happygolucky*. Okay, I get it - spirit life is so good. NOPE.

I havn't thought that those two could be topped. It could.
Entrance Door.
I'LL HIJACK THE PALACE AND BECOME THE MOST MIGHTY ELF IN ALL ELFWORLD!
love and peace and forgiveness and you have a son
UHM... WILL DIE. *desintegrates*
Exit Door.
His only purpose storywise was to bring the little Palace to Ember for further use. Couldn't they have cut out another chunk of the Palace for this?

Character death that doesn't leave an emotional impact anymore - neither on the other chars nor on me - and misses story relevance is worse than character death as such for me. Somehow all this announcement of "Every rule will be broken! Everything will change! No one is safe!" and the gonzo advertisement and the knowledge that expectations will not be fulfilled anyway made me indifferent. Killed my curiosity and my passion. And this is the saddest result.
I don't care anymore for the characters. And not much about how the story ends. Worst case would be if it would be stopped before issue #24 ... without the final solution.


Weird fact: I still love EQ. Love the characters I got to know in the beginning. The characters and the story I've followed for so long. I care for story and characters a lot.
It's like ... somewhere between Cutter's "No elf must die!" and Kahvi's "Spirit life is so cool!" the story switched to a parallel universe with parallel characters - and nobody told us.

Miss Gillespie wrote:

Last but not least: apparently most of us are reading FiQu for the sake of completion. I mean, think about the advise "have no expectations at all, that helps when reading the story". We are investing a lot of time and money in something that's not enjoyable! Quite stupid, isn't it

Nod. I read it for completation. I notice this each time when I realise that a new issue came out and I've forgotten about the date. When I notice that I've forgotten to gather my reserved issue for more than a month. I want to complete my collection.

But that's not the only reason. I find joy in the bits and pieces I like. New pictures of rarely seen characters. A familiar character drawn by Wendy Pini for the first time. New (background) characters, new tribes ... even if we'll get just a glimpse. A beautifully drawn scene. A loving touch, a funny interaction or an unexpected new relationship between my familiar old friends. A story snippet that adds to the character. Or answers a long asked question. For me it's worth the charge.

And I get payout on a second level. ElfQuest sparks my own creativity. New story, new art and last not least new discussion increase my possibilites and inspires me.
It's enjoyable to do my little bit of art and very satisfying to share.

I'm pretty sure that each of us who's not happy with the current story/art has some additional reason to follow and buy. And if not - sometimes conclusion and completation are satisfying in itself. Collector's experiance.

My thoughts on Door:

1) Why all the emotion over touching and then giving up on a body at all? Huh???

2) Are we sure he's dead? It looks to me like he just did an extended version of Moonshade's "speeding up her hum" and he could just as easily re-incorporate if he should choose.

3) What the heck is this about "take me back to before we chose form?" Previous history of the High Ones indicated that they evolved from more normal (to us) life forms and who had experimented for a time with sending their spirits out of their bodies before choosing to remain corporeal. Not that they were beings of energy to start that just decided one day it'd be more fun to have bodies.

Embala wrote:

Looking at Harotim again ... WHY does he look so familiar to me? Especially in the full body shot - his facial expressin, the pose, the almost seductive entry ...
I believe to recognize it next moment ... but this moment never comes. Pretty sure it was not EQ I connect to him.

He looks like Markin Shkreli.  It's something about his mouth shape, I think. It's creepy as all get-out. It's a very un-Wendy face, somehow, and it makes me want to punch him.

Exactly my thoughts, managa.

at 1) at least Skywise stated that a "spirit dance" with Ruffel isn't as satisfying as a touching a living body.

at 2) I've put same questions in Door's thread, manga!

at 3) I wondered the same, manga. Here we see what looks like prehistoric Coneheads and how I get the narrator says: "... to recall which shape we had worn eons before." Indicates that the Coneheads started out pretty much like Humans.
Of course that's not Wendy Pini's work ... so it might be retconned. Who knows.


LOL ... not exactly my thought, manga. XD I don't know this Markin Shkreli guy at all - maybe that's why I cannot see any ressemblance (besides a somewhat similar smile). I lack association. And I'm sure I have some other artwork in mind.


P.S. Regarding this photo I can understand your impulse! ^^

Miss Gillespie wrote:

I think Aurek's new look is meant as spite towards those who liked his appearance in the Kahvi mini series.

Preach! It's harsh truth and it needs to be told!

It's particularly galling because of that convention sketch she did where she totally embraced the Kahvi-era Aurek, complete with his pet snake!

Didn't the Kahvi miniseries take place like 8000 years before FQ? It was at least 500 years after Rayek took the Palace, since Cutter had time to grow face-fur, and I can't remember if they ever officially said anything about how long the Wolfriders were wrap-sleeping before Kahvi stole Nightfall's cocoon. (And I don't remember if they ever said anything about whether she got re-wrapped. I would ASSUME she did…) 8000 years is plenty of time to go through an outfit change.