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Shadowpath

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:30 pm

@Zadzi wrote:
I think Rayek is mad because all the hot pink and purple is pissing him off Razz

Can't see Two-Edge dying, would not make sense, especially now. I think he's just got a terrible jaw injury now though, as well as smashed up teeth! As if the guy didn't have enough self-esteem problems No  

@ Shadowpath .... yeah, I'm a bit unclear on the Palace thing actually, and I thought its energy was neutral without good or bad. I'm pretty confused about that.
Also, the star home thing is weird, unless Timmain means like to travel and find a new star home ?
And wondering what the deal with her floating is...hmmm....
There wan't anything wrong with the magic in the Palace. Bad magic isn't what made them crash. Either Timmain is lying or canon is being mangled here.

The only thing really wrong was them. They had, somehow, reached the point where they seeming could end up asking 'What's pain? What does that word mean? What's dying? What is negative things? Why is that furry man-animal raising that club at me? Why-*'.
They were oblivious to everything and the trolls rebelled, they were tossed back in time, to the wrong continent and they crashed landed.
And for some reason, went outside.

I assume her floating is just call back to issue 20, where she tries to float but Abode just smacks her down. 

But she specific says return. They're going back to the original homeworld.

I don't feel like the energy has to be negative to annihilate the soldiers. Tell the damn magic to become a sunbeam, focus it and aim.

The hammer hit him the chest, not the mouth. If the blood is any indicator, he suffering internal bleeding.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:31 pm

So I guess the 'ancient wrong' was the misused magic?! scratch
EDIT: I mean according to that preview scene and what TImmain is saying?

Weren't there pockets of remaining high ones magic or something, that had gone wrong with the whole mad coil thing? But that was AFTER the palace, so I don't understand.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:37 pm

If those High Ones really got so inanely stupid and ignorant that they not only forgot what pain and death was but also didn't put any real kind of security system in place, then sure. They might have been abusing the magic of the palace to an utterly insane degree and just not noticed it.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:41 pm

@Zadzi wrote:
So I guess the 'ancient wrong' was the misused magic?! scratch
EDIT: I mean according to that preview scene and what TImmain is saying?

Weren't there pockets of remaining high ones magic or something, that had gone wrong with the whole mad coil thing? But that was AFTER the palace, so I don't understand.
There were pockets of bad magic. They seem to come about when negative emotions play a part in their creation.
The pool of magic that stopped the fathertree from regrowing seemed to be born from the 4-5 High Ones who were trying to not freeze to death. (If I understood that story right.)

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:43 pm

Yes, the high ones seemed like they lost an ability to relate to certain things, for better or worse, and that may also be why Timmain looks like she doesn't quite have empathy or something, I don't know. Like there's still a disconnect there. But I also think the reason they left the Palace was because supposedly the humans sort of came into it and then smash smash. I'm actually surprised there weren't like more rooms in the palace or something to hole up in, but if the magic was gone maybe it was impossible to close any doors or whatever. I also always wondered where the preservers were and why they weren't spitting wrapstuff over the humans but they may've been shellshocked too, who knows.

Yes, it showed in Shards that Timmain's fighting power was pretty darn good at overtaking Winnowill, but maybe Timmain doesn't want to fight, just wants to leave now and not deal with humans.
I'm just going over as many possibilities as possible here.... trying to.
Why isn't everyone in the Palace, knowing that humans are hellbent on killing them? I mean, at least hiding out until the danger is gone? Has that been discussed? I mean no one's asking them to stay in the palace forever, but just for this crazy time.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:44 pm

@Shadowpath wrote:
@Zadzi wrote:
So I guess the 'ancient wrong' was the misused magic?! scratch
EDIT: I mean according to that preview scene and what TImmain is saying?

Weren't there pockets of remaining high ones magic or something, that had gone wrong with the whole mad coil thing? But that was AFTER the palace, so I don't understand.
There were pockets of bad magic. They seem to come about when negative emotions play a part in their creation.
The pool of magic that stopped the fathertree from regrowing seemed to be born from the 4-5 High Ones who were trying to not freeze to death. (If I understood that story right.)

That's how I understood it too.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:50 pm

Sigh. Once again the good points of the "Rogue's Curse" series seem to be mangled and negated. Not necessarily so, I suppose, Rayek could realize how right Ekuar was and trust him even more than before.

Tim main could be referring to the reckless rage of the trolls messing up the magic of the Palace and causing the crash.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:59 pm

Did that really mess up the magic tho? I can see it fucking over the cocooned navigators, creating a conscious backlash of not know when or where they are, and being why they crashed. But Timmain is saying back is the reason they fell.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:09 am

It's possible the trolls messed up the mojo of the palace, I could see how Timmain might mean that. And how it threw off the navigators and maybe everything else.... but ...I also really want to see/hear the trolls' side of it.
I guess there aren't any trolls alive from that time, are there. Maggoty seems like the oldest, again, going back to her. But I get the sinking feeling that she probably won't be brought into this. I was really hoping for a Timmain/Old Maggoty stand off Razz


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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:10 am

Old Maggoty slapping Timmain.
I'd actually buy it.
I think the trolls rebelling is getting buried. Blame everything on magic. Are they take ideas from Dragon Age now?

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:13 am

@Zadzi wrote:
Yes, the high ones seemed like they lost an ability to relate to certain things, for better or worse, and that may also be why Timmain looks like she doesn't quite have empathy or something, I don't know. Like there's still a disconnect there. But I also think the reason they left the Palace was because supposedly the humans sort of came into it and then smash smash. I'm actually surprised there weren't like more rooms in the palace or something to hole up in, but if the magic was gone maybe it was impossible to close any doors or whatever. I also always wondered where the preservers were and why they weren't spitting wrapstuff over the humans but they may've been shellshocked too, who knows.

Yes, it showed in Shards that Timmain's fighting power was pretty darn good at overtaking Winnowill, but maybe Timmain doesn't want to fight, just wants to leave now and not deal with humans.
I'm just going over as many possibilities as possible here.... trying to.
Why isn't everyone in the Palace, knowing that humans are hellbent on killing them? I mean, at least hiding out until the danger is gone? Has that been discussed? I mean no one's asking them to stay in the palace forever, but just for this crazy time.


I can see the Disconnect angle. I have a High One character who's like that, only he's worse in some areas. Tho his psyche is basically torn in two. He's...er, getting better tho.

I don't think so. They did go outside. Both in the OQ and in HY 6. Some tried to flee inside and the humans followed them and butchered them.

When it comes to Timmain I really get the notion she's really against interfering? And only really does it when she has to. Or when everybody else is going end up looking at her go 'Ok really stop it. Stop being a nebulous unknown idiot and HELP US.'
Seriously, she might love her children and all that, but she still talks about like they her own private little side project.

I think some are outside because they have some noble idea 'standing their ground because this is their home' are just really dug in and think it's going to go their way.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:34 am

Heh. I've always thought Timmain had some residual PTSD, she just displays all the words and actions of someone that has it. It's that disconnect, she's connected to this world out of this weird determination but now it's like she's hellbent on leaving also. Which makes me feel like she must sense something huge is about to happen, and yet isn't saying exactly what. I mean besides the humans coming.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:42 am

I'm inclined to think you're right.
My first thoughts about Timmain was she loved being Abode and would stay behind even if the other left.
I thought it was super weird she suddenly stayed around as an elf and even weirder that she wanted to leave with the others.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:28 am

I don't think Timmain is being remote. She is looking at the bigger picture. This is the first bit of any issue that has made sense to me. The elves are worried about humans invading a small piece of woods-- but she is concerned with the future of their race. This bit of land doesn't matter-- because they are all by and large going to leave the planet soon. She's like 'fight for it if you want- but we can't help you because we are in the process of prepping for something else, and getting involved with that would disrupt our prep work.' I get that. I do t think she was blaming the palace crash on bad mojo either. She blamed it on negative emotions, like rage and fear, disrupting the ability of the palace to navigate. The trolls didn't slash open the cocoons because they were happy with things. They were mad and their actions sent the navigators into a state of shock and fear-- and the palace crashed as a result. That's what I see her saying. The immortal elves who have been living inside the palace for the past twenty years have been learning to master it again so they can all escape the planet and go back to the stars. This war is unnecessary and a diversion from that. She doesn't want the people in the palace dragged into a distracting conflict.

This is why I think the Wolfriders are failing to evolve with the rest of the elves-- not because of recognition or whatever-- but because by living within the 'small truth' of the Way, they are failing to see the bigger picture.

Like someone cleaning their house and organizing their closet, while a tsunami approaches. Priorities.

I could see the troll rebellion being the ancient wrong. Because, if the eleven leave the planet-- they have to offer the trolls a chance to come with them or not. And to do that, they have to address that past injustice.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:53 am

I liked the art, not the colouring, but it seemed decently dynamic to me.

I agree that Rayek has lost all the character development he had, but that's basically how they treat Rayek everytime the write him.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:56 pm

@Lunakat wrote:
I don't think Timmain is being remote. She is looking at the bigger picture. This is the first bit of any issue that has made sense to me. The elves are worried about humans invading a small piece of woods-- but she is concerned with the future of their race. This bit of land doesn't matter-- because they are all by and large going to leave the planet soon. She's like 'fight for it if you want- but we can't help you because we are in the process of prepping for something else, and getting involved with that would disrupt our prep work.' I get that.
It makes sense. The Abbodian home of the Wolfriders and other elves is irrelevant for Timmain. She has other aims. The Holt is unimportant.

But what is about this much-praised, oh so precious choice then? It's the choice to move into the Palace and follow Timmain's oh so important, oh so wise and super secret higher plans - or die.

And the best thing is - if they die they will end up in the Palace anyway. This choice is a bad joke.


... and this was a rant XD

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:35 pm

I'm still really sad about the Rayek thing. He's just become more and more horrible, from complicated and arrogant and troubled, to pretty much evil now.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:10 pm

It's actually worse than that. He's just a puppet now.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:21 pm

Ok, so what if NO ONE decided to fight. What then, Timmain? The humans charge in just like they did when the Palace first crashed and slaughter everyone? Like last time?

Granted, many of the elves dwelling there now are tapped into their "own" powers. But the numbers are grossly different now then back then thousands and thousands of years ago. Elfin numbers (with magic or none) are still few compared to the hundreds and hundreds of humans now with more powerful weapons and intellect.

I'm with team Rayek on this one.

On a side note, I found it rather callous of Timmain to state "fight them if you want, or befriend them..." Wow. Really? Haven't enough of her "children" died in the past by human hands already? Isn't that rather... dismissive to the worth of her "children's" lives?

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:25 pm

Preview's up at Dark Horse.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:42 pm

Her children, the wolfriders are supposed to die and the Go-Backs are her children's children. (If we're going by the 'Go-Backs are the remains of Two-Spear's lot.)
They're just following their predetermined path, if that's how her mind works.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:44 pm

@Kindredsoul wrote:
On a side note, I found it rather callous of Timmain to state "fight them if you want, or befriend them..." Wow. Really? Haven't enough of her "children" died in the past by human hands already? Isn't that rather... dismissive to the worth of her "children's" lives?
It's the same attitude than after the call went out and Timmain insisted that the elves have to reach the Palace on foot and on their own risk all the way.

It might be "the bigger picture" and conehead point of view but for me as a human reader it's still "Who cares about death? They will end up in the Palce this way anyway!"

For me it kills interest ... *lacks word* ... it makes me "disconnect" to the whole story. I'm not running with the pack. If this is supposed to be a way to keep suspense it fires back badly in my case.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:51 pm

"And Cutter, seemingly restored, suddenly realizes he has a new quest: to seek the one being in the world who can right an ancient wrong

Plot twist:

The one being is Timmorn


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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:52 pm

I'd buy that.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #16 cover revealed (spoilers)   Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:45 pm

Guys-- the elves don' t have to fight the humans. They can leave. They can all get in the palace and go somewhere else. War, at this point, is purely optional.

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