Final Quest #17

Davrille wrote:

Miss Gillespie wrote:

Even though it does not make sense that he built a empire in a couple of years, and that Two-Edge knows about this,

It wasn't a couple of years, though -- it was the 10,000 years that the Wolfriders slept. Two-Edge may have known about it because he had his own tunnels to go to the Frozen Mountains. Putting distance between him and mer-Winnowill would be reason enough to head north.

No, it actually tok me a moment to remember as well but Forevergreen.

It hasn't been 10,000 years but it's been a few decades at least. Shuna has grandkids and was pretty well aged the last time we saw her.

Miss Gillespie wrote:

Door is so going to be the new emperor of the trolls (maybe as a 'clever' throwback to the images of Winnowill as the troll queen?)

I was thinking that too. They must really have fallen on hard times.

Yes, but Door was in the jungle at the end of Shards. To get to Frozen Mountains he would've to tunnel his way up north (keep in mind there is no reason why he should know how to get there). Then he has to somehow manage to become the new king of the trolls (who used to fight and enslave elves in the past!).

Also, we don't know where Venka took the Go Backs when she met them after Shards; if she stayed at the old lodge, well she should know about Door's presence (elves can feel lingering magic or the presence of other elves, so she should notice, maybe there would be also intel from the trolls themselves). If she took them some place else, then Two-Edge would have to take leave, wander around in the snow (or tunnel his way to a place he has no idea where it lays.

I see this "Door twist" coming, but it's a plot hole nonetheless*.



*It was the same with the tunnel Picknose and his trolls used to get Oddbit her make-over. There is no way the trolls tunnelled the ocean

Shadowpath wrote:

Miss Gillespie wrote:

Door is so going to be the new emperor of the trolls (maybe as a 'clever' throwback to the images of Winnowill as the troll queen?)

I was thinking that too. They must really have fallen on hard times.

The trolls or the Pinis?

Miss Gillespie wrote:

Shadowpath wrote:

Miss Gillespie wrote:

Door is so going to be the new emperor of the trolls (maybe as a 'clever' throwback to the images of Winnowill as the troll queen?)

I was thinking that too. They must really have fallen on hard times.

The trolls or the Pinis?

The Trolls. I don't know how much the eq comics sells nowadays so I can't possibly say anything in regards what kind of 'times' the pini's are facing.

Miss Gillespie wrote:

Also, we don't know where Venka took the Go Backs when she met them after Shards; if she stayed at the old lodge, well she should know about Door's presence (elves can feel lingering magic or the presence of other elves, so she should notice, maybe there would be also intel from the trolls themselves). If she took them some place else, then Two-Edge would have to take leave, wander around in the snow (or tunnel his way to a place he has no idea where it lays.

Waaaait wait wait wait.
Venka did mentioned something that sounded vaguely like 'hostile elves' in one of the earlier issues.
*Have to look that up*
Edit: ''Aroree has picked up a faint  open sending -- she's not sure from whom. Let's hope our weapons won't be needed.''

Maybe she does know something?

FQ #07 - the first panel. Venka talking to Two-Edge:

"Aroree has picked up a faint open sending - she's not sure from whom. Let's hope our weapons won't be needed."

Edit again: WHY do I actually try to beat you in finding? ^^


And there are still the "lingering dark energies" under BM Aurek held at bay.

I still have no idea why the fungus elves were in the story. They are certainly an interesting species. The part with Savah seemed pretty useless but it was funny how they made her laugh.
I'm interested in Rayek's storyline. More so than in Cutters storyline. Altough the fight with Skywise is nice to see!
Windkin's outfit still makes me shiver. Even more so than naked Savah.
It was nice to see Dart again, and to see him happy.
I really hope the story will end soon.

Shadowpath wrote:

I think it's wonderful to see Savah actually do something.

  Yes! As a young reader I worried that her life was very boring, seating in that house in the sun village and never doing anything by herself or going anywhere...

Miscellaneous wrote:

Shadowpath wrote:

I think it's wonderful to see Savah actually do something.

  Yes! As a young reader I worried that her life was very boring, seating in that house in the sun village and never doing anything by herself or going anywhere...

Same here! 

Miss Gillespie wrote:

Wouldn't it be nice, if "no one ever pushes me again" also applied to Timmain? Maybe Cutter will snap out of Timmain's trance?

That's how I read Cutter's anger in that scene. He really had his sense of self violated by Timmain’s revelation. It seems like he's gone through denial, then acceptance, and now is asserting his own individualism again. Maybe that's why Skywise's vision of them all living in the palace rankles him so much. He's focusing on the one thing that distinguishes him from Timmain - his mortality. It doesn't matter when he's going to die, but that he IS going to die, not exist as a splinter of Timmain forever.

At the same time, his behavior is feeling more like Timmain. Mercurial. Inscrutable. That panel where he's staring at Skywise was posted on Facebook and I think there was some discussion about whether it was Cutter or shape-shifted Timmain. I does give me the sense that he's kind of channeling her there. Maybe he is and that's why he needs to make a violent break from it.

manga wrote:

It hasn't been 10,000 years but it's been a few decades at least. Shuna has grandkids and was pretty well aged the last time we saw her.

It's been a few decades since Forevergreen, sure. But Nightfall says specifically, "What happened up there while we Wolfriders slept our long sleep?"

Two-Edge answers: "Ch-change! Subtle...gradual...sad!"

So I don't think it's Door, because of that exchange. Unless they're completely retconning Forevergreen out of existence at this late stage.

Time wise, I think it doesn't seem that it works for the leader of the trolls to be Door. Although, he would qualify as an "ancient wrong" (namely, sending him off, catatonic, with the humans).

I think the reason Cutter looks like Timmain-Cutter in that one panel is that it is essentially the same pose and facial expression as when Timmain changed into Cutter in the palace-- but with clothes.

Speaking of clothed and non clothed people-- Savah. I didn't ever imagine her life in the Sun Village to be boring. She seemed very involved in village life-- Plus she was able to send her spirit out to explore and learn new things. I assumed she remained in her hut so that she could receive visitors and because she was so old and delicate. But she did give birth to half the village ancestors in her younger years. She's had an active life. When the wolf riders arrived in Sorrow's End, she just seemed comfortable.

I hadn't thought about it that way before-- but yes. It does make sense that Cutter's desire to cling to his mortality and identity as a wolf rider is about distinguishing himself from Timmain. I did also read "no one pushes me" as being a direct response to her revelation.

I sincerely do hope we meet new, hostile elves.

As for the fungus elves-- I figure they are either symbolic, there to help Cutter process his new sense of self, or will come in handy later (the story's not told yet!).

Maybe we're thinking too hard and nothing new is going to happen in that armory. Cutter is just there for the armors and whatever weapons Two-edge has made there, and he's going to join the others in some big fight against the djunsmen... How would that help him with his Timmain problem I don't know, except that he'll be clearly choosing his wolf side over his palace-ethereal-boring side...

Lunakat wrote:

I sincerely do hope we meet new, hostile elves.

I doubt it but that would be cool. How do you imagine them?

Outlier wrote:

Miss Gillespie wrote:

Wouldn't it be nice, if "no one ever pushes me again" also applied to Timmain? Maybe Cutter will snap out of Timmain's trance?

That's how I read Cutter's anger in that scene. He really had his sense of self violated by Timmain’s revelation. (...) I does give me the sense that he's kind of channeling her there. Maybe he is and that's why he needs to make a violent break from it.

That would make sense to me. That's how I read that scene too. Then... maybe Cutter isn't at the end of his fight against himself but at the beginning. Will a break from Timmain means a break with Skywise?

Lunakat wrote:

I sincerely do hope we meet new, hostile elves.

I've actually been suspecting that since issue 7. Why else would Venka be concerned about an open sending? Perhaps some of the Go-Backs - from Windkin's story it seems like they split into a bunch of wandering groups - thought Zey really had the right idea about things.

---

A few thoughts about the issue:

- No matter how tall he grows Sunstream is still "little Suntop" in some ways.

- Go as Timmain goes. Guess that's one way to put it...

- The new 'Peace' scene = love.

- Smart idea to have Tyleet teach the Iceholters the Djunlander language.

- Nice how Rayek tries to encourage Daboi "As if you have no spine." I could easily imagine Rayek earlier being all "Pfff! You humans have no spine!"

- Love the fact that while Venka isn't romantically interested in Two-Edge she still cares enough for him to want to be there. Then there's his reaction "Yeah, I kinda figured when you started throwing stuff at me." (not an exact quote.)

- Hope Nightfall's nightmare won't come true.

- "These two I couldn't live without" Dawwww!

- Mender and Dart, the new makeout kids. And of course Freetouch teases them about it.

- Don't worry, Venka, you won't have to become enemies with your father! Of course if Venka was a bit more like either of her parents I'd be worried she'd lash out before listening, luckily she's not.

- Uhm... Ahdri, maybe you should've changed clothes before you went to the Frozen Mountains...

- Like how Skywise pointed out that for him the First War really wasn't that long ago.

For me it was an okay issue. I still can't unsee the copypasty parts (I'm looking especially at you Sunstream...), for the coloring I'm still impartial.

The quest for the treasury: Why don't they do the same what Ekuar did when he and the Trolls escaped it (but backwards) in KotbW3?

Miscellaneous wrote:

Maybe we're thinking too hard and nothing new is going to happen in that armory. Cutter is just there for the armors and whatever weapons Two-edge has made there, and he's going to join the others in some big fight against the djunsmen...

Maybe. But it can't be the old armor and weapons from the palace war, (or can it?). The last time we saw the interior it looks pretty empty to me... (And they took at least some of the swords with them apparently).

As a hopeless Skywise fan girly the most interesting part of this issue for me is the fight between him and Cutter. I can't decide who is more egotistical in this dilemma, but I'm on Skywise side in this one, because for me Skywise has a kind of intrinsic loneliness and I kinda understand his point of view (the abandonment issues...).

LurkingCat wrote:

The quest for the treasury: Why don't they do the same what Ekuar did when he and the Trolls escaped it (but backwards) in KotbW3?

Dude. Dude... Duuuude! Yes, that is a really good point.

Too bad they brought Ahdri instead of Ekuar.

Okay... I was just thinking about this (because I have Turkey induced insomnia and can't sleep!)... and here's what I think is going to happen.

SPECULATION WARNING (About to speculate):

Cutter and Skywise tussle. At some point, Cutter goes to punch him hard-core and smashes his fist into the ground or wall instead. At some point (either shortly before or after that), Skywise uses his soul name either in surprise or to try to connect with him. Cutter freaks out and runs. Someone-- either Skywise or Leetah-- tries to go running after him. Cutter triggers a trap that he, being so quick, blithely escapes-- but the person chasing him falls into. Seeing his loved one in danger, Cutter (if loved one is Skywise, remembers that "no elf must die, even if he is my enemy!" Because that's such a great line, I believe it must be used repetitively.... or, if Leetah, just thinks "Noooo!") , and returns to save said individual. In order to do so, he is forced to regain control of his senses, shock himself back into full sanity, and come to grips with his identity to a certain extent... but it happens really fast. They then go to the armory and uncover something only Timmain would know about-- and that only Timmain remembers seeing, because she was there in wolf form during Book 4.

Lets start a speculation game! The wilder the guess the better! I'll join in next insomnia

LurkingCat wrote:

The quest for the treasury: Why don't they do the same what Ekuar did when he and the Trolls escaped it (but backwards) in KotbW3?

Because they can't find it from the outside? Landscape has changed and that was long ago.

At first glance I was annoyed by the Mender-Dart scene: I found it unrealistic, and I had loved all their previous scenes... Then I remembered how some of my friends behaved in the first months of a new dalliance... Ok, not so unrealistic.

Too bad Shuna isn't around, she and Dart could have a little talk (for you Sifra, if you were looking for new ideas )
Shuna: Erm. Remember how you felt about my first marriage?
Dart (still in a dreamberry daze): What? Nothing in common. Mender IS perfect. And he hasn't blown any human lately!

Didn't he get some poor human girl brutally humiliated before her own family butchered her?

Miscellaneous wrote:

At first glance I was annoyed by the Mender-Dart scene: I found it unrealistic, and I had loved all their previous scenes... Then I remembered how some of my friends behaved in the first months of a new dalliance... Ok, not so unrealistic.

Especially since there was so much build up with Kimo. I cant see that as anything but a break-up. Its just odd for Dart to go from "Sorry-- I know its been years, but I can't commit!" to "Yes!!! Im sooo in love! (Who are you again?)" I think Mender worked some healer's mojo on him. He's unethical that way. (Plus, it's the only way this makes sense to me.)[/quote]

Quote :

Shuna: Erm. Remember how you felt about my first marriage?
Dart (still in a dreamberry daze): What? Nothing in common. Mender IS perfect. And he hasn't blown any human lately!

Yes. Exactly. Yes Mender totally did use his powers to seduce, deflower and literally and figuratively screw over a human girl.

LurkingCat wrote:

The quest for the treasury: Why don't they do the same what Ekuar did when he and the Trolls escaped it (but backwards) in KotbW3?

I'm going to have to look at that scene again. When it starts, isn't it when last we saw Picknose he was the new king of the trolls? Does it say something about how he lost control?

Somebody must have been directing Guttlekraw's guards. It could easily be a case of disposing of one despot only to have another rise up in his place.

Shadowpath wrote:

Didn't he get some poor human girl brutally humiliated before her own family butchered her?

Her family didn't butcher her. She ran off with the man she loved before they found out.

... I don't think they even knew. I doubt her sister advertised Mender's sick little game. I can't bring myself to re-read the story and check, though.

She lived? I have to say I'm surprised!