So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...

I don't think this thread is getting aggressive or out there-- not anything we need to 'reel in.' It's a conversation. People sometimes disagree in conversations. I think we can disagree without personally attacking each other. I haven't seen any personal attacks here against anyone on this forum-- and I don't know why we would need to reel in anything else. I think sharing our opinions about the old scroll or the Pinis is fair game-- since we were all there, it's the reason we are all here, and it was public.

ok, Luna. Thanks for the input

Sure thing, Nibblet!

I think KindredSoul and Lunakat are both right about it. The words could with a certain tone imply aggression or anger, but I don't hear that tone when I read the posts made in the last couple of pages. If anything, I hear frustration and here and there a bit of grief at having lost something significant to them, thus the frustration afterwards. I can see where KindredSoul is coming from, though, as with a different tone the conversations in the last couple of pages might have used a bit of toning-down.

As for what tone was actually used, I think things as I can see them seem to be quite civil, if I've any business in saying so. I'm glad KindredSoul spoke up, as was the responsible thing to do on being concerned by what she saw in the posts. Her own response via Nibblet's posting above was itself unaggressive and consummately considerate.

Damn, but I feel proud to be in a place like this, where people care about each other, even when they're at odds like this. I don't think I've been a part of an active Forum beforehand- at least not in a very long time- where this kind of sustained and mutual respect was both standard issue and fostered between users old and new. Thank you all for proving the worth of my being part of this place. Hugs all around!

-2Paw.

Well said, Two Paw!

As I said earlier. We should all treat each other as we would like to be treated. It would solve many problems. It is not side stepping racism in any way or whatever moniker you want to give it. As a whole society does tend to treat those who are different from them differently. Racism is only the tip of the iceberg. I have multiple birth defects and have to work twice as hard to do things that others do with ease. This translates into every aspect of my life. The biggest headache I deal with is employment. I have to prove I can do the job, while being treated as if I'm incapable of doing anything, and with little to no support from the employer. Stevie Wonder had the right of it. We need to make sure all have equality, no matter our abilities (paraphrased).

As for the SoC. I was sadden by the way things were handled. We should have been given notice of the change and that would have allowed those with work on the site to retrieve their stuff. I have meet the Pini's and although friendly, they both are rather standoffish and quiet. in short I was somewhat impressed, but not overly so.

To further answer as to why Wendy Pini's hypocrisy, well, first off, let's imagine that racism is not a filthy word. Let's see racism as what it really is, a system of disadvantages brought about by prejudice, that can be perpetuated by our refusal to examine when and how we participate in it. In this, we can understand how our unexamined actions can be motivated by subconscious racism, rather than seeing it as a stereotype of an old white man in a plaid shirt, planning the next KKK meeting.

Wendy "knows" she can't be racist. She's a good person!

Well, maybe she is(I have my doubts), but that doesn't mean she lacks the capacity to act on the same subconscious societal biases that anyone else can.

This means she can understand that a white passing Jewish woman shouldn't play an Asian character, but she's unable to see how her portrayal of Indigenous Americans as either bloodthirsty monsters or worshipful innocents plays on the ignoble/noble savage stereotypes, both of which serve to dehumanize indigenous peoples worldwide.

I understand the sentiment you were trying to express, Golden. And you are right-- in that that really is the way people should behave toward each other. It's just that (and I think this is why Kathleen was reacting) that is exactly what some people say (in other contexts) to shut down conversations about racism or similar problems with discrimination. And it tends to irk people who want to talk about these things.

I've heard it said that, in this culture (aside from Stevie Wonder who was literally blind!), only white people can really choose to "not see color"-- they have the luxury of that because they will never be subjected to institutionalized or systemic racism. That's what's called "white privilege" and only white people never have to think about it. In the same way that people who are able bodied never have to think about things like... say, walking into a public building that has stairs, or reaching up to get something off a shelf in a supermarket, or using a tight bathroom stall, being able to drive, etc.. Also a type of privilege.

We all tend to see the things that affect us, and be blind to the things that don't affect us.

kathleen3.0 wrote:

This means she can understand that a white passing Jewish woman shouldn't play an Asian character, but she's unable to see how her portrayal of Indigenous Americans as either bloodthirsty monsters or worshipful innocents plays on the ignoble/noble savage stereotypes, both of which serve to dehumanize indigenous peoples worldwide.

Right, because one is blatantly obvious and the other is subtle. And because she is a good person-- but this is an element of the cultural myths she was fed and grew up with. We don't see these things the way a fish doesn't see the water it swims in. To have them pointed out is jarring.

i'm always pretty willing to talk about things that happened, but i usually prefer seeing the truth in between both sides when i can. but i do firmly believe in the "treat others how you would like to be treated." i'm nice to people from the start, i'm willing to give first to get, but this only lasts so long.

if someone won't/can't respect me, why should i extend that courtesy to them?

also omg leanan, huge kudos for saying that to wendy...i'm astounded. that took a lot of courage.

Now they have killed the old Scroll of Colors for good.

Huh !?...

Just found out that NO, they were not zapped !
Check by clicking on the last sending star after my banner.

Some links seem to work ... others not. I'm in the character threads right now ... some don't show. Some do. But only the first page. It's like roulette. XD

My heart wants to share jaRf's hopes ... but sense and experience make me agree with Miss Gillespie.

EDIT: It is ... really back? ... okay, I will be VERY busy.

EDIT 2.0: Back to NO access again. For me at least.

I'm able to get some material, not all.  Anyone have a link to my fanfiction page on Elfquest.com? I found the headings, but not the material.

I found the thread where your tales are, but I see very little text. It seems like most of the actual posts have disappeared.

A shame.  There used to be a link somewhere on the Elfquest website that took you even further back, to the previous version of the Scroll.  People in charge of the Efquest website seem not to understand that the information on it was marketing gold.  Such is life...

They simply don't care for this "clutter" ...

BTW if the Pinis are that much into social media, why do I find neither of them on LinkedIn?

Sad to hear how things have gone.

Well, the forums are still there but for some reason not all the replies are showing on forum posts.... I don't know how long that's been going on. It's too bad, I really enjoy going through the old forums, when everyone was so open and excited, full of healthy debate... and not yet so damn cynical lol. I feel we've become a somewhat cynical group. I am not admonishing or condemning, because I'm part of that! And I think this place now , here, is very important to have....
I do however think partially it's the bitterness of how abruptly the scroll of colors was cut off, combined with FQ's quality substantially dropping in terms of story.
It *is* sad, I wish I was part of the old forum for longer, I only got there a few months before it got cut off. Yet it's still cool to read again, the energy was definitely different, more upbeat and open-armed, and like I mentioned before, alive with healthy debate and criticism, so there felt like a lot more freedom (as opposed to the Facebook group). And balance!

Oh well, they've made their choices... Elfquest was really nice while it lasted. I re-read OQ again (I do so every once in a while), and it's SO GOOD. Seriously, every issue was like a mini-story within a larger story. Now it's like an uncertain story unsure of its direction with a whole lot of throat clearing and checking to make sure everyone is happy (and goddammit, THEY'D BETTER BE OTHERWISE THEY'LL HEAR ABOUT IT lol).

I'm still curious though, as to why not all the replies posted in threads are showing up.

I've talked with Kindredsoul and we agree that the missing comments are a side effect of the homepage ugrade. It was annonced for Friday/Saturday on Facebook ... and the posts had disappeared right after that.

Nothing new for me, Zadzi ... each time we got a site change or an upgrade it messed with our contributions. Links, pictures, quotes, text formats, even smilies ... all kind of coding was affected and did not show, did not work or worked wrong to a considerable degree. Back then they had reason to mend it ... but it took longer and looooonger each time.
My best bet is that new software and old coding clashed one more time ... and this time they decided to simply clear out everything that had a broken code of some sort. (I even remember that Rob mentioned the possibility of such a cleansing after he became responsible for EQ.com.)


I got to know our old Scroll very well with the years and when I see what's missing that's my conclusion.
- Comments from the earlier years are basically extinct.
- The Dollz thread holds no dollz anymore. Actually all the pictures got *poof*
- My (relevant) posts - old and new - are gone to apparently 99 % (at least the relevant ones).

No, I don't take it personal XD ... because it is not. It fits the mould.
The members used lots of coding in the beginning ... I remember some who had their "personal font color" and coding for bold, italic and different fonts and sizes was common.
Part of the picture codes and links always caused problems with each new upgrade.
My own posts either had a picture in it ... or a link ... or I addressed other members with their name in bolt letters. (those simple words in the game threads are still there XD)

To most degree "modern times" have broken the SoC in the end - incompatiblity of old and new systems.


*cannot help the notion that it was spicily seasoned by disregard ... and a grain of malice - very personal and decidedly biased view on it*

Yeah- Kindred is right about the threads, it's just technical. Obviously they aren't paying any attention to that part of the webpage... which is great because they might otherwise have erased it all.

Zadzi wrote:

I do  however think partially it's the bitterness of how abruptly the scroll of colors was cut off, combined with FQ's quality substantially dropping in terms of story.

Yeah- that was a d*ck move. And no one can convince me it wasn't petty recompense for losing a debate.

Quote :

It *is* sad, I wish I was part of the old forum for longer, I only got there a few months before it got cut off. Yet it's still cool to read again, the energy was definitely different, more upbeat and open-armed, and like I mentioned before, alive with healthy debate and criticism, so there felt like a lot more freedom (as opposed to the Facebook group). And balance!

I agree. That place was fun because we had such interesting and lively conversations. We used Elfquest as a jumping off spot to talk about society, politics, history, our personal lives, current issues, books, and whatnot. I even know a couple of people who discovered they were actually good writers by writing fanfic for that forum-- and then branched out into other forms of writing. It wasn't restrictive. (That's why I find the facebook group so boring. How many times can you read "Yay! So pretty! Love this!" without it becoming redundant?) And it wasn't limited to Elfquest-- the discussions went all over the place.

I wonder what it would take to turn this place into the spirit of that place? And where do we go with this forum when Elfquest ends? (As it soon will.)

It probably takes more than we'll be able to achieve. :/

Back in the "golden days" of the Scroll Elfquest was a point of intersection where we all would meet sooner or later. And from there discussions could spread in all directions as you've described, Lunakat. Creativity was inspiered and allowed to grow. And true friendships were formed.
Elfquest was the collective interest that brought us together again and again at this place ... and our individuality and interaction was the spice that made it more than just a gourmet restaurant.

Elfquest isn't this anchor anymore. We still look in for news and topic discussions ... but it's like a diner compared to the former holiday resort and adventure park. And we have changed, too ... as have lives for most of us.

I hope that this place will last beyond the Final Quest ... that the people will stay. I wish I'd have an idea how to regain the old spirit - or a new one. By now I just hope that each of us will find enough personal reason to come back for a vacation. Again and again. Or for long weekends! ^^

Seems to me what's needed to make this forum like the old is to drive traffic here. It was a no-brained before - if you wanted to talk Elfquest, go to their site. Now it's go to the Facebook page. There might be others, like me and probably most of us here, that really don't like the FB format and would participate, but they would need to know it was here.

I would advocate going to any other EQ related sites and just dropping a link here, but I know nibblet and kindred have asked not to. I guess in fear of some censure from the Pinis, but it seems like there are other EQ Facebook pages than the official one, and I know there are still a couple hilts out there. Seems unfair for the Pinis to take special action against a particular small group of fans. But I'm sure there's a lot I don't know about the situation.

I really don't want to see this place slowly die after fq is over. I just found it and I really like everyone here. Also I have yet to branch out and share all of the stories inside me and I never had the chance to explore elfquest through discussion like you all have.