Final Quest #9

TrollHammer wrote:

Your comment, Elwing, sparked a thought: it is funny that there are a select 'exceptional' intellegent magic users (or in Two-Edge's case, skilled to the point of magical ability with a physical thing: I do not see how he could have been a better metal-smith if he had been gifted with magic-metalshaping as an ability) and that they are all coming together in a way.  Made me think of a 'dream team' of broken misfits:

Winnie
Rayak
Two-Edge
Eukar (mentally whole but of unsound body)
Teir (though his breaks are mending)
and others as interpretation suits...

Oh my freaking Lord! That's what I had been trying to post - but I keep getting an error on the forum about "Your session has timed out" - repeatedly, so I gave up! But in short, I had said the same thing...

Rayek - Extremely intelligent, and yet a little unbalanced, the least of the crazies.
Two-Edge - Extremely smart, and absolutely crazy (justifiable so, perhaps)
Winnowill - Extremely intelligent; the smartest of them all, really, and also the craziest of them all.

The only "crazy" character I know, that was not shown to be super intelligent is Two-Spear (that I know of...)

I had Two Edge lock your account when Kin wasnt looking so i could get in first...

The only down side on Two Spear being in the dream team is that as far as we know he's dead (well, so is Winnie, but at least she is an active participant and gets a ribbon for showing up). We still havent really seen anyone in the palace spirits that werent known by a "currently" living Elf... havent even seen Mantricker, Eukar's friends, any of the firstborn or even Voll... seems spotty. In the Wolfriders this is explained, but not outside the wolfriders. I kinda find that interesting.

Ruffell was entirely a secondary character, if not tertiary. She just wasn't an anonymous background character, like most of the Sun Folk. She was killed off because she was the least important character that had a name and that readers had formed some very moderate connection with. The most character development she ever had was in the two or three pages before she died.

Rayek and Mender do have a handful of personality traits in common. They both grew up in the Sun Village- where they were probably both lauded for their talents. They both are powerful and intelligent magic users. They are both ruthless under the right circumstances. They are both narcissistic. They both get a thrill out of casual cruelty.. under the right circumstances. They both believe in protecting their people-- but sort of make up their own moral compass by which to do it.

I think Mender is much more stable than Rayek ever was. Rayek always had too fragile an ego. Mender seems pretty confident in himself-- and he handled Ember's ultimate rejection fairly well.

I'm sure we will see something happen with Mender though-- Dart's comment had to be some sort of foreshadowing. I think Mender's moral compass will be tested, just as Rayek's has been.

Speaking of Rayek, I'm expecting some fall out from him showing up at the Palace. It has to happen- otherwise, what's the point? Wendy would have just shown him in a scene telling Ekuar that he didn't dare go back. I wonder if the armored people he is fighting, in the preview, are the trolls, human beings, or the Go Backs themselves?

I found Trollhammer's take on Timmain to be interesting. Looking at it from her perspective, no, her children cannot really be trusted with the full power of the Palace. She's seen them seriously abuse it.

Trollhammer wrote:

We still havent really seen anyone in the palace spirits that werent known by a "currently" living Elf... havent even seen Mantricker, Eukar's friends, any of the firstborn or even Voll... seems spotty

The way I see it-- the spirit world in the Palace is sort of like a big spirit soup. They are all swimming in it, and only come up to the surface, individually, if they are called to-- or something pushes them to. I'm sure there were a lot of "off camera" encounters. It seems unlikely, for example, that Skywise wouldn't have sought out his parents. Or that Savah wouldn't have tried to contact her dead loved ones. I'm sure Ekuar tried to get in touch with his friends at some point.

And even if Ekuar didn't actively try to contact Mekda and Osek, either the Palace brought back a lot of memories of them, or he could somehow sense they were there, free of their sufferings. He seems to be the sort who would be very content with that, especially the knowing they weren't hurting any more.

Redhead Ember wrote:

Ruffel is not a secondary character! She has a name.

And nobody got lived up by the experience.

Not to 'ruffel' any feathers, but several "red shirts" in ST:TOS had names... didnt save them...

TrollHammer wrote:

Redhead Ember wrote:

Ruffel is not a secondary character! She has a name.

And nobody got lived up by the experience.

Not to 'ruffel' any feathers, but several "red shirts" in ST:TOS had names... didnt save them...

Several Wolfriders in the Madcoil storyline, might as well have been wearing Red Star Trek uniforms.

Yet they are mentioned from time to time.

I think red shirts are standard issue for Go-Backs...

TrollHammer wrote:

I had Two Edge lock your account when Kin wasnt looking so i could get in first...

Oh I was looking... but TrollHammer provides chocolate and wine as bribery when he needs me to look away

Remember that episode when a red-shirt got married, and Captain Kirk presided over the ceremony-- and we got to meet his fiancé and everything-- and he totally had a name that other people actually called him by several times... just so they could kill him! So Kirk could make a speech about self sacrifice and the true nature of bravery!

Remember that guy?

Lunakat wrote:

Remember that episode when a red-shirt got married, and Captain Kirk presided over the ceremony-- and we got to meet his fiancé and everything-- and he totally had a name that other people actually called him by several times... just so they could kill him! So Kirk could make a speech about self sacrifice and the true nature of bravery!

Remember that guy?

You mean Vaya?

Tymber wrote:

Lunakat wrote:

Remember that episode when a red-shirt got married, and Captain Kirk presided over the ceremony-- and we got to meet his fiancé and everything-- and he totally had a name that other people actually called him by several times... just so they could kill him! So Kirk could make a speech about self sacrifice and the true nature of bravery!

Remember that guy?

You mean Vaya?

Rule number 1, Pinis: you DO NOT make your redshirt COOLER THAN HALF YOUR MAIN CAST!!!!!!!

...never forget, never forgive.

wingthing wrote:

Tymber wrote:

Lunakat wrote:

Remember that episode when a red-shirt got married, and Captain Kirk presided over the ceremony-- and we got to meet his fiancé and everything-- and he totally had a name that other people actually called him by several times... just so they could kill him! So Kirk could make a speech about self sacrifice and the true nature of bravery!

Remember that guy?

You mean Vaya?

Rule number 1, Pinis: you DO NOT make your redshirt COOLER THAN HALF YOUR MAIN CAST!!!!!!!

...never forget, never forgive.

You do when you make a Star Trek / Game of Thrones crossover... In other words, Elf quest...

What about Yif? Might be the ultimate "subverted redshirt".

Random nameless guy who has a brief discussion with Pike about weapons.
Kahvi notices him in the pile and is all "Hey! He's alive!"
His name gets revealed.
He's all "Naah! I'm dead."
10,000 years later (around 30ish in real-time) Kahvi mentions him in her list of people who had more glorious ends than her.

Seriously; I don't think anyone would've noticed if he hadn't got mentioned.

Yif is a total background character. Most of the GoBacks (like the Sun Folk) are not only background characters, but completely anonymous. They are extras. That's why we can kill them.

I just thought it was kinda random - in a very cool way - how Kahvi mentioned him with those who had better ends than her.


Also I guess it says something about us that we actually recognized the name, rather than going "Who's Yif?" But then again; we're the kind of people who over at the Old Scroll had a several pages long thread about Clearbrook's unnamed and unseen daughter, not to mention the Baker.



As for Rayek; we know he'll stay at least somewhat close to Venka from that scene in the teaser-vid where he's holding her after she gets wounded, but I have a feeling he won't be in the Palace when it returns to The Holt for that big celebration in issue 10.

Lunakat wrote:

Yif is a total background character. Most of the GoBacks (like the Sun Folk) are not only background characters, but completely anonymous. They are extras. That's why we can kill them.

Which kind of makes me wonder if the intention was to kill off a bunch of wolfriders in the palace battle, but they were too loved and popular, so they "found" the convienient go-back red shirts to take their place... historically speaking Cutter's immediate peers are unnaturally long lived compared to any before or since, as far as the story is concerned.

wingthing wrote:

Tymber wrote:

Lunakat wrote:

Remember that episode when a red-shirt got married, and Captain Kirk presided over the ceremony-- and we got to meet his fiancé and everything-- and he totally had a name that other people actually called him by several times... just so they could kill him! So Kirk could make a speech about self sacrifice and the true nature of bravery!

Remember that guy?

You mean Vaya?

Rule number 1, Pinis: you DO NOT make your redshirt COOLER THAN HALF YOUR MAIN CAST!!!!!!!

...never forget, never forgive.

There are many deaths in the original ElfQuest that I don't forgive - Vaya's is one of them. (Granted, aside from being drawn beautifully - had it not been for her sacrifice, a lot of her cool factor would have been out the window - so it took her demise to make her really stand out - but still...)

I think they found the Go Backs so they could have a body count without losing too many mainish characters.

Lunakat wrote:

I think they found the Go Backs so they could have a body count without losing too many mainish characters.

Agreed. And at the time, the only one who stuck out was Kahvi. Vaya had a moment, but all the rest were all background really at the time of the Original Quest. Later, they'd gain importance - but in the original quest, I agree - they were there to be the "body count and travesty of war."

And to raise elf numbers ... and make war and win more believable.

In that, the Go Backs are kind of on the same level as the Sunfolk, or most of the Gliders. They all are (potential) red shirts.

I imagine, that there are also probably several Wavedancers going to perish when Angrif finally attacks them.

Hmm... wonder if the stratigy used in the origional wavedancers against boats will be allowed to work with the freshly made boats of Djin's fleet?