Final Quest #14

manga wrote:

They're going back to the ineffectual, disconnected, clueless - ungrounded - behavior that got the High Ones stranded and killed in the beginning.  I feel like they should be taking the life lessons with them into the stars but they're not.  If anything, they're doing the opposite.

Well, the murderous humans are (likely) going to find the Holt next issue. It's likely going to be repeat of the crash.
Everybody in the palace, the immortals are going to die.

I just feel sorry for those two in wrapstuff. Never got to see them.

They will find the Holt rather than the Palace-- and Ember will have to fight them off using Treestump's armor and weapons. That's my guess.

This has just become exhausting.

Shadowpath wrote:

Well, the murderous humans are (likely) going to find the Holt next issue. It's likely going to be repeat of the crash.
Everybody in the palace, the immortals are going to die.

Lunakat wrote:

They will find the Holt rather than the Palace-- and Ember will have to fight them off using Treestump's armor and weapons. That's my guess.

Well, the possibilities aren't mutual exclusive. The humans are explicitly headed for the holt (they don't even know where the palace is at the moment,) but just as a practical matter, Ember's going to need reinforcements--Go-Back reinforcements probably--if the humans attack. She's only got 6-8 elves in her "tribe" at the moment, and only a few of them are fighters (Pike, Yun, Treestump, Clearbrook, Strongbow, maybe Aroree). Aroree is only somewhat helpful in a fight, and Strongbow's pretty out of it. As for Newstar and Ohler....what are they going to do, strangle humans with daisy chains? If the humans attack and the palace doesn't come to help, there's no way the holt elves win that fight--even with Treestump's armor and weapons. It's just a logistical impossibility. So my guess is that the humans attack, Ember calls for reinforcements, the Go-Backs arrive at a desperate juncture and turn the tide.

Now what would make the story more interesting is if the drama with Rayek somehow prevents the palace from responding, leaving Ember and her group on their own. But based on the way the story's been going thus far, I think help will come.

Wait, where is the palace right now? At the ruins of Blue Mountain or the Holt?
Because if it's at BM then I'm not that worried.

The problem with rayek might leave them on their own... But pick one could come up with the trolls

I'm pretty sure the palace is at the ruins of Blue Mountain. That's where Venka and Two-Edge had their little chat. Aroree is in the holt for some reason. I don't actually know where Rayek and Ekuar are. Ember's tribe are on another continent being led by Teir and Scouter. She and leftovers are at the holt. Cutter and the search party are MIA. At least some of the wavedancers are on the move--not sure who or why. I think that's just about everyone?

Yup the trolls could definitely be a factor. Treestump's vision in Dreamtime was pretty ominous. I'm almost expecting things to get pretty bad before they get better. And also, it seems possible that the rescue party will have to find Cutter and bring him back in time to save the day.

Still, we're not far from the half-way point for FQ. That's a lot of issues to fill up. I don't think the humans are going to reach the holt in issue #15. The story is progressing in 6-issue "chapters." Chapter 1: Ember captured, ends with recognition delayed. Chapter 2: wheel-spinning passage of time, ends with Moonshade giving up her wolfblood and Cutter going crazy. Chapter 3: the meat of the action--will probably reach a climax with an attack on the holt and turning-point with Cutter/the fungus elves (just a guess). The 3rd chapter in the 4-chapter story should be the climax. Chapter 4: resolution and disposition of the characters--who stays, who goes?

I think u are right Wisp. Did anyone have a dream about the trees closing in? That was Nightfall-- right?

Maybe she realizes Redlance can communicate with the tree elves-- and Dr Dre can communicate with Cutter. I mean... bringing him along like that, he's got to be necessary for something. What's the equivalent of that storywise?

"Hey! I'm going to the supermarket-- see you later!"

"Great! Say-- I just bought this crazy anti-zombie spray for kicks and no other reason! Why don't you take it with you? You know... Just for kicks."

It's a pretty overt set up.

I think Cutter can't talk or reasons to reason-- so Dre is going to have to sing to him in true Dr. Dre style.

What other dreams were there? Which haven't happened yet? Pike had a dream about turning into a dream berry and getting eaten by trolls...

A lot of the dreams are starting to come into focus, I think.

Redlance: foretold the return to the original holt, may hint at the nature of the fungus elves, concludes with the wolfriders having gone away again and the final destruction of the forest by humans. We can assume that, whether as a result of age or going deeper into hiding, the Wolfriders eventually vanish.

Treestump: foretold his interest in metallurgy. He becomes bloodthirsty, the "trees close in" and his weapons swing out of control, killing those he loves.

Zhantee: meeting Leetah, communion with her (I'd say this is when he "shared" with Cutter at the end of his life in Shards) and then enters the palace (death).

Venka: reconciles the two halves of herself to become a chieftess. We've seen this already, she's even in a similar outfit as her dream.

Nightfall: her dream is very interesting in light of developments. She sees Cutter as the vitality of the tribe, uniting the wolfriders in pursuit of the way. "As out Chief thrives, so thrives the tribe." A darkness "slinks from the forest" in the vague shape of Kahvi, "it hungers for what we have," the forest fades, the way fades, "chief and lifemate all consumed by that ravenous shadow." Obviously, this could refer the Kahvi's appearance while the Wolfrider's slept, but now I begin to see the dark menace from the forest at the fungus elves, stealing Cutter and sucking away his energy. They are a threat to both Cutter and Redlance--the treeshaper may not get on with them so well after all. Nightfall tries to defend her loved ones and the shadow transforms into "shadow members of our own race [elves]." She sees Winnowill et al, but this description could just as easily apply to the fungus elves. The hungry "loveless ones" retreat with Cutter, Redlance, Tyleet and Venka and a huge crowd of humans appears to consume the holt. She tracks the captives, but when she attacks their captors, they only grow stronger. She realizes a solution...and wakes up. I think Nightfall's dream speaks directly to the current story. The fungus elves could be the dark force draining Cutter of his vitality--so could Timmain, in a sense.

Pike: escapes from a tight spot (being "smothered") by turning into a dreamberry. This is one of the "hiding in plain sight" dreams, which makes me think of ShenShen turning into a human. This might be one strategy for elves who wish to remain on the WotM.

Skot: doesn't dream, only wishes to have a child and die. All set with that.

Moonshade and Strongbow: a very abstract dream. They recognize, have cubs, lose a cub, the forest begins to close in on them, they either merge or one of them vanishes (think it's clear that this is Moonshade giving up her wolfblood), and Strongbow mourns and continues on miserably alone. Good times! It is interesting that even in their idealized vision of themselves, Moonshade is dressed more ethereally and looking toward the sky while Strongbow is wearing plants.

Tyleet: she looks for little patch, is raised up above the crowd by a friendly human to find him, then sees that she has five fingers on her hands. Again, hiding in plain sight, seeing clearly.

ShenShen: jealous of her sister. She sees Leetah, who transforms into five-fingered Tyleet, who tells her to "shine where she loves." All this has come to pass with ShenShen's transformation and work as a midwife to the humans.

Clearbrook: her dream is also interesting for the current story. She dreams she's searching for Windkin in Blue Mountain. She confronts and kills Two-Edge twice. Then she gets into a tight, suffocating position, only to be rescued by Two-Edge, who tells her that children are never safe. I feel like there might be something here to do with Treestump's weapons and lessons from Two-Edge. Also, she's yet another wolfrider with feelings of the world closing in, suffocation, and/or strangulation. Strong sense that the wolfriders are losing the freedom to practice their lifestyle in peace.

Skywise: dreams of intelligent stars who are "leaving" the WotM. Skywise is whisked away with them. He asks "where do I belong," the star transforms into Timmini and then into Starjumper. My guess is that Skywise wants to leave with Timmain, and now he can because Cutter and Timmain are one.

On an unrelated note, I really like a lot of the art in dreamtime.

I miss Dreamtime, it's one of my favorite issues. I really like the art in it too. I want to say the dreams are done and no more will be coming out in FQ, but I would love it if it went with the flow of Dreamtime.

I think Clearbrook's dream was about being trapped by the trolls in Searcher and the Sword.

I wonder if some of the elves, like Tyleet, will choose to be human like She Shen did.

Suggestion: Cutter should have a piece of Palace-stone embued with healing energies embedded in his chest. (Like Iron Man, lol!) This will make him truly immortal without removing his wolf blood and he won't have to worry about being sucked into Timmain.

Like Alternaverse Kahvi!

Lunakat wrote:

Did anyone have a dream about the trees closing in?

IIRC, the forest-hands closing in on Moonshade and Strongbow appeared to be five-fingered at one point, then became four-fingered. Was it foreshadowing the humans maybe doing in their relationship, or something elf-related (= the Palace, as it turns out)? That was a slip in details that Wendy used to be a master at, and it came off as less onerous and more just-plain-confusing.

Wisp wrote:

Moonshade always had a rocking "mom bod." I appreciate it even more now that I'm a mom myself! If you look at that old plate, "The Lure," you can see that she has slightly pendulous breasts, a soft belly, and plausible hip-thigh ratio. As far as elves go, she looks like she could be a mother of two. Nothing about the scene depicted in that plate makes much sense, but as a figure study of Dewshine, Moonshade, and Nightfall, it's invaluable.

I loved that plate for this too. Moonshade is so beautiful there. Thin, but not smooth as a doll. And Dewshine looks a bit alien but in a beautiful way. Being very skinny myself, I've always appreciated her drawing of Dewshine. And the difference of body shapes in Wendy drawing helped me appreciating the diversity in real life. Sad she doesn't have/take the time to do that now.

Quote :

There's a reason why elf crotches have always been covered in EQ: so that we can assume that everything's anatomically correct down there without having to actually inspect the goods.

Agree. I'd rather have them drawn in a realistic way (what's wrong with shocking people?) or not at all than this. I remember, as a child, looking through adults comics for naked women, not because of some weird curiosity: I was just very, VERY worried that my "girl parts" were not normal because of the way it was usually drawn (or rather, not drawn) everywhere, and I needed reassurance (luckily for me, I found that book about all the censored arts in comics... :p ). The doll-like way she draw the women now? That would not have helped

I finally got my issue (I mistakenly thought it was the one that was going to be delayed, so I didn't look for it at the usual time). It's hard to put my thought into words. I was moved by this issue, and can understand why Ms. Pini cried.

I don't think the poetry in Cutter's forest scene represents words he is actually saying to himself. I think the use of rhyming verse is intended to convey what's going on in his psyche that he can't put into words. As such, i find it poignant. Given the nature of this scene, the poetic form adds depth that a mere prose description could not have done. I was saddened. I understood easily in the last issue why Timmain's revelation would make Cutter want to flee and separate himself from her. Now, denial and anger having moved into acceptance and grief, he finds he has lost the will to live in this separate form which he now feels to be a lie, an unreality. I think he's wrong-- that he is now a different being from Timmain due to his own history and experiences-- and we know from Future Quest that he does live on in the flesh, so I can only hope the author agrees with me.

Strongbow's sense that he's lost Moonshade is real and cannot be assuaged by anyone pointing out to him that she's still alive and he needs to just accept her as she now is. That is, of course, what he does eventually need to do, but thankfully his friends know him well enough to know that this is not a possibility right now. To Strongbow, Moonshade has forsaken the Way and betrayed him doing so. The "smaller truth" is where he must live, and Moonshade, rather than continuing to hold both in tension as she had been doing, has simply abandoned the smaller truth for the larger one. And she didn't do it in crisis, as Skywise did, but of her own rational free will.

Of course Moonshade needs to be who she is and is becoming-- I'm not saying she's wrong. But knowing Strongbow as well as she must, knowing his soulname, she must have known that her choice, to him, was a betrayal and an abandonment. I'm hoping he can learn to forgive and accept her as she is now. But things can never be the same between them, and his grief is palpable and poignant. To say he shouldn't feel this way is to deny his right to be who he is.

Venka doesn't understand Two-Edge, and I wish she had tried harder to do so. I understand why she felt she had to send to him that his actions in creating that weapon ultimately harmed the one he loves best-- her. But he was unable to face that knowledge and was able to view this only in terms of his own needs. I think he must regress now into the deeper madness that once held him. This is a beauty-and-the-beast subplot, and I'm hoping Venka can find more compassion towards her beast than she has so far shown.

I'm impressed with the new fungus elves and am very glad they're not just tree-elves. The author's conception here is new and original, and I'm finding it fascinating. They appear to have a kind of hive-mind, and this is expressed on the page by the merging of one sending into another so that the reader can't tell which sending came from which elf. I find that very clever and innovative. I also like the way they can form their shapes out of forest-stuff, and then lose their shapes back into forest again. It's a logical, final progression of the idea of shape-changing as the Coneheads' original skill.

Filcher's dead body with his nose still in Cutter's boot was one of the sweetest and saddest things I've ever seen.

If the other wolf pack was able to tell that Cutter is two beings in one, that would mean the Wolfriders' own wolves have always known this. I find that interesting.

I enjoyed the dreamberry-passing scene very much, with the enhanced memory-ability that comes to Wolfriders when they partake. Pike as usual had insights born of his essential simplicity, that were ultimately helpful to the others. He's such a good character!

Interesting that Aroree didn't go with the Palace. I wonder why?

I thought Venka's outfit too bright also.

That's about it!

I want to agree with this.

Mostly how I feel about it - but with deeper insight and much better worded than I would be able to.

I liked this issue, in more ways than I've liked the rest of fq simply because while my mind has been stimulated very much by all the things going on and revelations and mysteries and hints all coming together, this issue had alot of focus on the emotional side. FINALLY my heart kan catch up a bit with my mind. I understand the loss of individuality because it's shown exactly how Cutter feels, it's basically finite death to elves isn't it? And add poor Filcher with his dumb sock... ;_;
I totally think Cutter is his own person tho. The wolfblood makes the difference, it's physical. I think some others here mentioned this, but if Timmain figures this out, maybe she decides to die herself? She becomes part of Cutter rather than the other way around.

...Jinks birth's gonna be a bit awkward then, I get why Wendy don't wanna touch that.

I'm still unsure of the entire Moonshade situation, because I just don't understand her motivation, so while I'm a little fascinated, I can't feel for them at all... Just get over eachother, both of you! Part is because my personal view is that personal development always beats romantic relationships, but part of is because I just don't get what's going on with the palace and why some elves want to stay there. It's all too alien I guess? I hope maybe in the future we'll have another revelation and we'll understand why elves go there, but right now I just feel emotionally disconnected to all the elves who want to stay there, with the one exception of Skywise. His motivation is fairly built up since the very beginning, but now suddenly THAT'S kinda changing a bit too it seems...

Other than that, I looked through some of the dream comments here and I had this thought that maybe Moonshade and Strongbows dream... at the end is actually about Cutter and Timmain? It ends with one WHITE wolf, after the other wolf, which is TWO wolves, is taken by the trees. Maybe, in some way, ALL the wolfrider dreams are about Cutter and Timmain? In dreams they are all one, and the well-being of the chief is the well being of the tribe and all that got pretty much hammered in in Dreamtime.

I also don't think Shen Shen has found her light just yet btw... my tentative interpretation is that the boot that stomps on the roots is probably invading Djunsfolk killing several of the native children she helped come into this world, maybe even herself at the end or at least close to it, and only after that will she really find out where she shines. She wont find out when she thinks she ought after all!

namuhna wrote:

I'm still unsure of the entire Moonshade situation, because I just don't understand her motivation, so while I'm a little fascinated, I can't feel for them at all... Just get over eachother, both of you! Part is because my personal view is that personal development always beats romantic relationships, but part of is because I just don't get what's going on with the palace and why some elves want to stay there. It's all too alien I guess? I hope maybe in the future we'll have another revelation and we'll understand why elves go there, but right now I just feel emotionally disconnected to all the elves who want to stay there, with the one exception of Skywise. His motivation is fairly built up since the very beginning, but now suddenly THAT'S kinda changing a bit too it seems...

You don't just "get over" someone you've been with for more than five hundred years, raised three children and lost one. I just don't get why it HAD to be a choice for Moonshade. Not the growth but the removal of the wolfblood. Even if she did want immortality (and it's a crappy, only-so-long-as-you-don't-get-dead immortality) I don't understand why she couldn't, I dunno, have had her clock turned back to give her more time. Either Strongbow would adjust or he'd die of old age and she'd be free to do what she wanted. To say "I'm here to stay with you for a season" and then turn around and in what seems the SAME DAY to make such a fundamental change... no wonder Strongbow's feeling torn.

Before the Anti-Strongbow crowd pipes up, NO, I'm not saying she's soley responsible for their marriage and that she should put off what she wants just to make him happy. But I AM saying that if you ARE Lifemates and not just "until I feel like shagging around with other people" mates then you need to work together with each showing consideration for the other and not making huge changes arbitrarily.

I agree, Manga. I think it's just the emotional disconnection from Moonshade's decision is what I don't get. If I saw the Palace with half the temptation other elves did, maybe I'd get it. But I never saw the appeal of the palace at all, so I don't. It just seems like a shiny bauble to me.

As I said, part of my confusion is totally due to personal view of the world and romance. For some, probably most people, the choice between a mate and personal growth would be hard, for me it really, really isn't. Grow first, mate later. And if you haven't finished growing, leave mate until you are.

However, it's not impossible for me to imagine that it could be hard, and it's abvious she loves Strongbow except...

I totally agree on is what you say about the WHY of the choice. That's part of the mystery that leaves my sympathy for Moonshade behind. WHY did she have to remove her wolfblood? How is that growth? I don't really doubt that she had to tho, I'm really not ready to question their choices until I figured out their motivations, but that means my head is thinking too much for my heart to feel for her.  

For me, she has a choice between something I have a hard time relating to and something I don't understand at all so I'm just left with nothing at all to relate to, and not just on Moonshades part either! There's something a bit off about Strongbows motivations I can't really get a grasp on too, and I keep tinking there's something I missed... If Moonshade is his ONLY desire, why wouldn't he join her? Why is he so uncomfortable in the palace? TBH I've been wondering if Stongbows been hiding something for a long time tho, ever since Timmains sending...

But anyway, yeah. I hope we get some kind of explanation for all of this, and maybe my heart will catch up with my head.

Well, gee, I don't suppose there could be lingering trauma from the last time he was in a hollowed out stone structure with a bunch of magic using elves who were all pure-blooded and somewhat taller than he is?

I mean, it's not like anything horrifically traumatizing happened to him THERE.

^ Well, there is that. Blue Mountain wasn't exactly a spa day for the Wolfriders, and for him especially...

I think he's just such a stick-in-the-mud traditionalist that anything "other" is met with suspicion, disdain, or just good old-fashioned obstreperousness. Sort of like certain demographics here on the World of One Moon...

And Moonshade, who agreed with him emphatically on his adherence to The Way (rather than merely loyally sticking by), has done a 180 and gone extra woo-woo. Yes, people are allowed to change, even in surprising ways, but Moonshade of all people? *MacGuffin!* oh, excuse me.

I'm more than a little surprised none of the Wavedancers seem to have gone that route. They're already willowy and not too thrilled with the way this world has treated them; why is the Palace not more of a siren call (see what I did there? lol) to any of them?

Oh, totally, there's trauma, but he never SAYS that's his worry does he? He never even thinks it, he never reminds anyone of what happened in Blue Mountain and compares it to the Palace. This would be the logical thing to do because damn the similarities are starting to pile up, and it would also be a very IC thing to do, but nah he instead focuses on how Treestump endanger the tribe or how Ember runs her tribe and her supposed "denial of recognition".

IMO either the Pinis are extremely lazy with their story-telling and completely forgetting that motivations need reminding and strengthening when faced with alternatives, or there's something else going on. Some kind of revelations relating to how the palace works that explains both Moonshades attraction and Strongbows fear. At least I hope there is...

I think the easiest way to understand Strongbow and Moonshade is to picture a housewife married to a conservative man whom she loves and has always stood by. He doesn't change, even as the world changes around him. He is traditional and sticks to the values he has always understood and sees his family the same way.

She has been content for years to stand a step behind and support him. She has raised her children- they are now grown. The kids have turned out very diffferent from their parents. They go their own ways. She slowly finds that she is growing discontent with her life. She sees that people around her are making different choices-- going to college, having stimulating careers. She is discontent while he settles into his comfortable contentment with the way things have always been.

She begins to pursue her own interests-- taking an extension class here and there. She meets new people. She learns new things. She discovers the world is broader than she suspected. Her mind is stimulated by what she is studying. She decides to commit herself to her studies which become her passions.

He stays the same. He isn't interested in hearing about what she is learning. He isn't comfortable in the environments she has immersed herself in. He doesn't like the new people she knows. He doesn't trust the world she is moving into. He feels angry and betrayed. He accuses her of being a bad mom (but the kids are grown and they laugh him off)-- he begs her to return to the life they knew together. He attempts to woo her back. She asks him to just come take a look at what she is doing, but he refuses. It scares him and he feels alienated by it. Her new life is literally alien to him.

She gets to a point when she has to decide what to do. Will she give it all up and go back to a life that now feels limiting to her and in which she had grown depressed because she loves a man who cannot change? Or will she choose the life for herself that she finds fulfilling and offers her new ways of looking at the world. Will she choose herself or him?

It doesn't matter what she's doing in the Palace. The details are unimportant. Just as he details of his daily life in the woods are unimportant. This is the essence of what's happening. This is basically the conflict. And it's not uncommon.