The Final Quest

The Final Quest has become a train wreck. I feel a rage at the waste, and yet a manic fascination with the carnage. And I just can't look away.

wingthing wrote:

The Final Quest has become a train wreck. I feel a rage at the waste, and yet a manic fascination with the carnage. And I just can't look away.

What's your favourite part, though?

Tbh, I liked getting to see the Go Backs. That Gahv fellow was cute. There was fighting, that was cool.

I liked seeing ShenShen again. The art wasn't so bad.

This says terrible things about me as a person... but my favorite part is the Strongbow/Moonshade  breakup. Let's finally see some Wolfriders break tribal loyalty and embrace immortality! Let's finally see elves having marital strife and relationship fatigue (esp. after centuries together) instead of the idea that Recognition and telepathy means it's all sunshine-and-rainbows.

Also, I've been waiting so long for Moonshade to stand up to Strongbow that I had given up hoping.

wingthing wrote:

This says terrible things about me as a person... but my favorite part is the Strongbow/Moonshade  breakup. Let's finally see some Wolfriders break tribal loyalty and embrace immortality! Let's finally see elves having marital strife and relationship fatigue (esp. after centuries together) instead of the idea that Recognition and telepathy means it's all sunshine-and-rainbows.

Also, I've been waiting so long for Moonshade to stand up to Strongbow that I had given up hoping.

I'm a terrible person in a different way because I completely disagree with you on the subject of immortality, but I agree on the Strongbow/Moonshade thing.

I think Stringbow's problem, tbh, is being a trauma survivor. He's been screwed by life since day one, and, like most trauma survivors, he's paralyzed with anxiety. He talks about the Way and the Niw, but cannot truly reach them. For all the talk that he's the keeper of the way and stuff, he's never been SHOWN to actually feel that way.

And while I'm on the subject of Ember's tribe...not even *one* of them wants answer the call? Really? Not even at-least-half Go Back Sust? We've seen no reaction from anyone but Ember and Tier so we don't have a clue whether it was even discussed, but I find it unlikely every single one of them went 'nope, not interested.'

kathleen3.0 wrote:

I think Stringbow's problem, tbh, is being a trauma survivor. He's been screwed by life since day one, and, like most trauma survivors, he's paralyzed with anxiety. He talks about the Way and the Niw, but cannot truly reach them. For all the talk that he's the keeper of the way and stuff, he's never been SHOWN to actually feel that way.

I can see what you mean here, and agree. He has had some shit happening to him, and many would break, in this issue I felt he was more broken about Moonshade leaving HIM and their life, than her leaving the way, but he can't find the right words? Just my feeling.

This is a filler issue for sure, not bad, but kinda disappointing since the waiting is so long And after the call, I want to see more action, and more of the new elves,  and more hints about mysterious Star-child and I want to see what happens when Rayek and Winnie enters the palace ( And Rayek and Venka reunion, long time, no see! ) And everything still feels a little...prologue? Like, just building up still, and the story hasn't started yet. The human war fleet can't be the big bad? I want something bigger...yeah...spoiled.

Quote :

Everyone on Facebook is so enthusiastic. And I just looked at all our comments- and they're entirely critical. Are we just the grumpy crew?

Yes. On facebook everyone is kinda over-positive because Wendy, Richard and the rest is there, and here...well, the outsiders live here and yes, I feel the tone can get a little negative in here, sorry, but I do. I like that we can be honest about stuff without being afraid that Richard will pop up or something, but sometimes, not always the negative wibe is wearing me down, and I already regret writing this, because I'm afraid getting attacked...

Blackbird wrote:

I can see what you mean here, and agree. He has had some shit happening to him, and many would break, in this issue I felt he was more broken about Moonshade leaving HIM and their life, than her leaving the way, but he can't find the right words? Just my feeling.

This!

Yes!

You nailed it, and it made me realize something else (that shouldn't have taken me so long to realize too   )

We don't get all of the emotional factor with what Strongbow says when he's sending.... even if it appears to be hurtful or angry words. We have to go by the expression and body language that's drawn of him to get any idea of the emotions in his sendings.

So we don't actually read the emotional pain or turmoil he must be feeling when one sends out of fear, or from a breaking heart (soul). If he's drawn looking mad or angry, we the reader automatically assume that's the emotion he's sending with.

Blackbird wrote:

Yes. On facebook everyone is kinda over-positive because Wendy, Richard and the rest is there, and here...well, the outsiders live here and yes, I feel the tone can get a little negative in here, sorry, but I do. I like that we can be honest about stuff without being afraid that Richard will pop up or something, but sometimes, not always the negative wibe is wearing me down, and I already regret writing this, because I'm afraid getting attacked...

"Attacked" here, no. Hope you know that

As for the negative tone (at least from me), that's why I've tried not to say too much in the discussion because I don't want to ruin the positive talk for everyone else.

I guess.....  I just kept hoping with each issue it would get better for me, I kept giving each issue a chance because I'm so passionate about Elfquest, that at this point, my frustrations get the best of me

but in no way is anyone going to attack anyone.... we're just known for deep intense discussions

Oh gosh no! No one's going to attack you for having an opinion, or be all "why are you still here?" for simply disagreeing with them. If we wanted that, we could all go hang on Facebook, I guess. I figured the whole point of this forum was so that wouldn't happen. All of us got along fairly well in the past- we can manage that again, I hope!

(No, there was no reason for that rabbit. I just like all these weird emoticons!)

I actually don't think the art and story in Final Quest are bad at all. We got to read the prologue in this bizarre sort of way-- one page at a time. I think rate of presentation that lent itself to nitpicking, honestly. There were some things about the prologue that jumped out at me in the page-a-week format that I didn't care about when I read it all together as a single issue. The story, for example, did not seem slow paced. A lot of events were packed in there- and I think that Wendy did a good job, in that issue, of tying together a lot of loose ends. A lot! And she made a number of story discrepancies work finally. That was impressive.

The art was actually quite good- drawing wise. I liked that she toned the colors back as well. The only issues I noticed with the art were some that, again, i think were PhotoShop related-- cutting and pasting characters into different panels without altering them, your friendly neighborhood pattern brush or clone brush used obviously, and possibly making some of the colors too dark for print (even though they looked good on screen). But again, the color issue aside, these things that were super noticeable in the page-a-week format, were fairly negligible when I read the Prologue as a short graphic novel. My eye simply moved past it all, and the end result was great.

I think I will probably feel the same way about Final Quest as a complete graphic novel. The pace of the story seems slow to us because we have two months in between issues... but a lot has happened so far. When I went back and reread the comics from 1-8 all together-- it was a very fast paced, eventful story. And it was coherent. The art is solid. Some panels are really lovely. I think Sonny has a decent handle on the color

Anyways, I like Final Quest. Unlike, i guess, a lot of people here, I think the artwork is up to par. The line art definitely is-- and having Sonny handle the colors has helped a lot! (I still kind of wish Wendy had never stopped using traditional mediums, since she's so good at it! But I also respect her for learning and trying new things.) It looks good to me.

The only thing that is tripping me up at this point is... the plot crutch of having Timmain and Ember insist that the struggle to survive is necessary to avoid stagnation. It seems like just a way to cripple the deus ex machina power of the Palace. But what's wrong, really, with letting Skywise meet some elves halfway and give them a lift? What's wrong with asking for help that's readily available... when you are in over your head and people are dying? Why leave for the stars now? Things are pretty good for the elves on the WoTM. Can't Skywise and whoever wants to go on some jaunts into space and come back? What are they expecting to find out there? It seems like a contrived obstacle.

I'm also starting to feel like Skywise needs to get a life. His own life- not Cutter's. Does anyone else think he's staying with Cutter because he's miffed at Timmain?

That seems to be his modus operandi... no? Seems petulant here.

I just got my issue and read it last night.  For the most part, I liked it!

Yes, I think Skywise is staying with Cutter because he's miffed at Timmain-- but I wouldn't call it petulant.  What Timmain's choice has effectively done is given Skywise no role in the function of the Palace at this time.  Sunstream can do the calling of the elves, and manage the pods for visits of those in the Palace to their loved ones who didn't go.  Skywise envisioned himself helping with the gathering-in-- and Timmain not only shut him down, but did it in a very authoritative way, without regard for the relationship they've built up for years now.

As for Timmain's reasoning, I think she's got a point.  Unless a group is in immediate danger, like the Sun Villagers were, it may be the best thing for them to have to strive for the Palace.  Those for whom it comes too easy, might not really understand its value and importance.  Would Timmain resist an actual "help, our whole group is dying!" distress call?  I don't think she would, and I don't think that's what she meant.  But we have to look at it the elfin way, not the human way.  Elves dying trying to reach the Palace, will simply reach the Palace immediately instead.  Elves reaching the Palace after hardship and danger, will be ready to take the more responsible roles that living elves take with the Palace-- particularly when it leaves for the stars.

But I like the idea that Timmain, though she's always been the voice of wisdom for the elves, is not perfect; that she messed up this time with Skywise, and that she might need to think about not being so autocratic, no matter how old she is.

The issue did feel a little like filler-- but necessary filler, to move us to the next major plot development.  As Luna said, once we read the Final Quest as a whole, this issue will fit in very smoothly, IMO.

I thought the Strongbow-Moonshade interaction was well handled, and yes, I thought for Strongbow the main thing was being separated from his lifemate-- not that he elevates the Way above her needs.  I don't think he does.  It's just that the Way is how he makes sense of life and his world, and he really can't relate to the larger truth.  And frankly-- I get it.  The WOTM is very like our world, and I wouldn't give up the trees, and the smell of the flowers in spring, the feel of autumn leaves underfoot, lying in a grassy meadow beside a lake, hugging my animal friends-- I wouldn't give up any of it for that Palace, no matter how wondrous it is!  

I don't think Strongbow and Moonshade have "broken up."  It's just that he'd be terribly unhappy in the Palace on Blue Mountain, and she'd be terribly unhappy at the Holt without the Palace.  It's sad, but they clearly still love one another deeply and wish they could be together.  They don't want to be apart, they just can't find another viable solution.

One thing though-- I was very unhappy and disappointed with Venka's response to Two-Edge.  "Childish outbursts" or whatever it was she said-- really, Venka? Really?  I thought you were the thoughtful, compassionate one.  I thought you understood Two-Edge: his trauma, his mental illness, his inner torture. I thought that even though you couldn't find it in yourself to return his love, you understood that he was in love with you. How can you expect him to go to Blue Mountain with the Palace?  And since he can't do that, how can you expect him to be happy living without you?

Your elfin privilege is showing, Venka.  Try to see if from the perspective of a half-troll with a history of extreme child abuse and a tenuous hold on sanity (which he is now in danger of losing at this new blow).

Yes, as Luna said, it gets a lot better reading more at the time, I got the story, and liked it more when I got my first collected issue, and the ideal for be would be to wait until #2 came to read the rest, but who got the patience right?

Lunakat wrote:

Why leave for the stars now?

Yeah, right?? What is the rush?

Blackbird wrote:

Yes, as Luna said, it gets a lot better reading more at the time, I got the story, and liked it more when I got my first collected issue, and the ideal for be would be to wait until #2 came to read the rest, but who got the patience right?

Lunakat wrote:

Why leave for the stars now?

Yeah, right?? What is the rush?

But they're not leaving for the stars now! We know from the preview of the next issue that 10 years are going to go by. Presumably the Palace will stay on Abode (with possible short jaunts into the stars) during that time.

I don't think elf concepts of time are anything like ours. Yes, they are talking about leaving for the stars, but there is no "this means soon" about it.

There could still be. However, "soon" for the elves could be 100 years.

As for Venka's reaction to Two-Edge; I read it as a "I wish I could help him." By calling them 'childish rages' she shows that she knows it's nothing he can control.

BTW, am I the only one finding it a bit amusing - in a horribly dark way - that Two-Edge rhyming is basically short-hand for "Uh-Oh! He's losing it again!"

Redhead Ember wrote:

As for Venka's reaction to Two-Edge; I read it as a "I wish I could help him." By calling them 'childish rages' she shows that she knows it's nothing he can control.

BTW, am I the only one finding it a bit amusing - in a horribly dark way - that Two-Edge rhyming is basically short-hand for "Uh-Oh! He's losing it again!"

Yeah, I loved the idea that rhyming again is a sign of slipping sanity. Interesting!

There is a connotation in English that "childish" includes the idea of "not about anything important; not to be taken seriously." That was why I had the problem with Venka's use of the word.

I think Venka was born too late to really understand the significance of Blue Mountain. She didn't see it or experience it. She probably just doesn't understand. And I do think she meant "irrational, juvenile behavior" when she said "childish rages." She's not the kind to rage, so again, I think it would be outside her frame of reference.

KR Wordgazer wrote:

But they're not leaving for the stars now!  We know from the preview of the next issue that 10 years are going to go by.  Presumably the Palace will stay on Abode (with possible short jaunts into the stars) during that time.

I don't think elf concepts of time are anything like ours.  Yes, they are talking about leaving for the stars, but there is no "this means soon" about it.

Have we had a preview of the next one? I must have missed that. Or do you just mean the cover?

Stargazer wrote:

KR Wordgazer wrote:

But they're not leaving for the stars now!  We know from the preview of the next issue that 10 years are going to go by.  Presumably the Palace will stay on Abode (with possible short jaunts into the stars) during that time.

I don't think elf concepts of time are anything like ours.  Yes, they are talking about leaving for the stars, but there is no "this means soon" about it.

Have we had a preview of the next one? I must have missed that. Or do you just mean the cover?

No, no official preview to my knowledge. But I do remember reading that the next issue advances the timeline 10 years.

Lunakat wrote:

I think Venka was born too late to really understand the significance of Blue Mountain. She didn't see it or experience it. She probably just doesn't understand. And I do think she meant "irrational, juvenile behavior" when she said "childish rages." She's not the kind to rage, so again, I think it would be outside her frame of reference.

It's not the first time Venka has brushed off Two-Edge either. In the Shards War she ignored his advice about staying put, not sending to Rayek, not provoking Winnowill. I always thought her attitude when she and Two-Edge disagreed was "I'm sorry you feel that way, but despite your much greater age and experience I know better..."

Hmm... a bit of Rayek and Kahvi's least appealing personality traits there. Guess it was only a matter of time before that bomb went off.

In other Venka news, I notice she recognizes has next to no real control over her Go-Backs. "I lead, they do whatever they want." Wonder where that's gonna go, esp. once she reunites with Rayek. I'm sure he's gonna have an earful for her about changing careers.

Wait, Moonshade and Strongbow got the Wolfrider equivalent of a divorce?!

So it's ok to use the palace to visit other tribes, but it is a no go to move in immediately, unless you're Moonshade, Suntop, Timmain and everyone of the Sunfolk? Stupid plot device is stupid.

The Go Backs arrived freakishly fast at the palace, don't you think? And yes, Venka is an ass. Even if she doesn't understand the impact of Blue Mountain, she should respect the feelings of other people.

Maybe they build up the tension between Timmain and Skywise to make their recognition more of a shock?

Miss Gillespie wrote:

Stupid plot device is stupid.

That needs to be the tagline for Final Quest.

Multi-Facets wrote:

Wait, Moonshade and Strongbow got the Wolfrider equivalent of a divorce?!

Naah. Just the Wolfrider equivalent of a long-distance relationship.

Miss Gillespie wrote:

So it's ok to use the palace to visit other tribes, but it is a no go to move in immediately, unless you're Moonshade, Suntop, Timmain and everyone of the Sunfolk? Stupid plot device is stupid.

But they are not taking the Palace to visit anyone.
Well, except for Aurek... who's gonna get a bit of a shocker!

Miss Gillespie wrote:

The Go Backs arrived freakishly fast at the palace, don't you think?

We don't really know how much time passed since issue #8.

wingthing wrote:

Miss Gillespie wrote:

Stupid plot device is stupid.

That needs to be the tagline for Final Quest.

Fine with me

Redhead Ember wrote:

But they are not taking the Palace to visit anyone.

So Suntop took the long road with all the Wolfriders and Sunfolk to consume recognition with Brill?

I hope they didn't crush Aurek by accident or that the unusual alliance is actually between Two-Edge and the misfits :/

Miss Gillespie wrote:

Redhead Ember wrote:

But they are not taking the Palace to visit anyone.

So Suntop took the long road with all the Wolfriders and Sunfolk to consume recognition with Brill?

I meant now. As in; events after issue #9. Sunstream's and Brill's situation was pretty unique.
Honestly, I didn't factor the Wavedancers in as those who are not allowed to take permanent residence in the Palace, they've had plently of chances to do so - both when the entire Palace went down there during Discovery and those times Someone popped by in a Palace Pod - but nobody seems to have wanted so.

Why do you keep calling him Suntop? He hasn't had that name for... High Ones know how long.

I think the unusual alliance is Two-Edge and the Misfit Trolls, but at least the way it seems to be set up; Two-Edge leading them and maybe helping them find their way again is far better than how I feared it would be after reading issue 8.
I was afraid Two-Edge was knowingly leading them into a trap in some sort of mad thought that if everyone died Venka would have to be with him. After the preview came out I was totally "There's something really bad at the end of that river-voyage."