Who is your least favorite elf?

OMG Hammer ... and I thought I'm the only one thinking this way! And that my "collage" will not be understood. XD
You've expressed my thoughts short to the point and much better than I'd been able to word it.

Yeah... Krim's "fabulous stunt" makes only sense "for plot's sake", Vaeri. Basically she decided it would be a great way to die when she neuters a temporary adverary - and make sure he will devote the rest of his life to the extinction of the Elves. BRAVO.

Lunakat wrote:

If elfin genetics have no rhyme or reason-- then why did Wendy go to the trouble of drawing characters to look like their parents.

I don't think it was ever claimed that elfin genetics had no rhyme or reason, just that they don't work like human genetics. For example I doubt they have something such as dominant and recessive (sp?) traits.


Oh, and I always got the impression that Krim's initial plan was to kill Angrif, but when she got close enough she realised she couldn't and decided to just chop his balls off. Her words to Pike about how "At least there will be no more Djuns." sure seemed to me like she was acknowledging how it was a shame she couldn't kill the Djun, but hey, at least there won't be any more coming.

As Hammer pointed out: Move the sword to the other side and you will likely cut the main artheria. High enough to make it very hard to stop the bleeding in time. And a leg should be easier to hit then testicles - once you are in place like Krim.

Admittedly I'm biased. What's wrong with the Go-Backs in general and Krim/Skot especially that the have a "expiry date" stamped on? They were like:
Oh, we already lived too long for Go-Backs. We'll reach our expiration date soon. Doesn't matter that our bodies are in best health, our life is fine and we have a loving family. We need to get rid of our body before it will fall apart the moment we hit expiry date!

At least Skot found a much better reason and purpose to go to the Palace. *bows in respect*

But did Krim know enough of that-stuff to know the main artheria is? Don't think Go-Backs every bothered with these more refined ways of killing. It's very possible that in her mind it was a question of:

Hitting leg = Just a wound that wouldn't cause too many troubles.
Hitting private parts = Stopping any more Djuns from getting born.

Go-Backs fought GIANT and well armed trolls. In case she was such a great warrior as Go-Backs are supposed to be they should know the vulnerable spots of their enemies.

(have edited my previous post)

I still think that Krim's comment about "At least there will be no more Djuns." show's that she knew simply cutting Angrif's balls off wasn't the best thing to do, but at that moment she simply had no other choice. 'At least' tends to imply that things could have gone better, but simply didn't for whatever reason.

Nod. I'll take it as arbitrary indication.

Still dislike that "I'm on a suicide trip" mindset of the Go-Backs. Krim did not leave to fight the Djun and risk her live to reach this goal. She left to seek death - and preferably with the Angrif's life (or his balls) as the cherry on the cake.

actually i dun see why she couldn't have done both in a good hard swipe with the sword. knives are SHARP yes? do a slash from either side, and you're entirely likely to slash the man's manhood off at the base, and the side of the blade will dig into the inner side of the thigh.

and i know you can hit the artery easily and it'll bleed badly. my dad had a stint put in his very upper thigh near his crotch and when he first tried to stand, the stitches broke and it literally fountained blood, probably due to the force of pressure, and god forbid what would have happened if the nurses hadn't been beside him to put pressure on it.

alright...gotta ask the embarrassing question.*asks dad where the scar is* of course he asks WHY i'm asking...yes, the artery is right there in the joint of your groin. so simplest thing in the world to use brunt force to do exactly what i previously said= sideways swipe with the knife, cut off the important part, AND hit the side of the inner thigh. hell you could probably go all the way to the bone with enough force, which means even more area for blood loss, equalling quicker blood loss.

and i'm PRETTY SURE as a well experience fighter, Krim would know this. knowing how the females of the Go-backs could be...this was possibly a well enjoyed way of killing trolls if they had a chance. and she could have done the swipe, then maybe be able to run away and ya know...SAVE HER LIFE.

krim was already dead when she stabbed him.

I just figured this was, in part, her sense of humor at work.

Embala wrote:

Still dislike that "I'm on a suicide trip" mindset of the Go-Backs.

While I am never one to say suicide is a good thing, in the case of the Go-Backs, to me it made sense. They grew up with one thing - war. Constant war. Life expectancy was a daily thing, not one to look forward to fondly growing old. If you died, make sure you take at least one enemy with you. In many ways, it's like the suicide bombers in the Middle East. All they know is war. So dying in the name of war, is just their way of living, if you will. It was just as important as to kill your enemy as it is to take your next breath.

Right. There's a big difference between suicide and going out in a blaze of glory. I think the greatest thing a GoBack could strive for, according to GoBack culture, was to courageously die a warrior's death. It makes sense, considering how long they lived with war, fighting for the Palace. In a different context, it doesn't make as much sense-- but the mindset clearly held on. It's understandable.

*sigh* I REALLY wish for one or two Go-Backs, nicely fleshed out and well known, who are able and WILLING to survive.

I understand your view on the Go-Backs, Tymber, how you explain their absolute will to fight fiercely and why don't fear death. I don't like this trait very much ... but I highly respect it. And with this lifestyle there are plenty of "good chances" to be killed. No need to seek death - death is an inherent part of their life.

But Skot and Krim lived 500 years with the Wolfriders - good chance that's 5x the time they lived with the Go-Backs. They could have learned another way of life - at least they had plenty of time to realise there are other opportunities. Nevertheless Skot and Krim had this "expiry date" imprinted. Skot "was lucky" to die in the Shards War - saving tribe mates and helping to reach the goal. Krim simply decided to commit suicide NOW ... Hey, there's finally a fight! A good chance to die like a Go-Back. NOW. Screw it that I have a lifemate and a young son. Screw it that the tribe is in danger and might need everyone. I WANT to diiiiiie NOW. Dying is FUN.

The only thing I like about Krim's death is her interaction with Lehrigen. And the beautifully-sad pictures.

Yes, I know. The Elves don't need to fear death - they actually have an afterlife that is possibly more interesting and exiting  than the life in the organic shells. Still seems a poorly motivied suicide trip for me.
Well, maybe all this IS Krim's kind of humor. I'm not good in catching jokes.

Maybe in some weird way, Krim wanted to die in a way that would honor Kahvi. It sounded like some serious respect and hero-worship was going on there. I can't imagine Kahvi would disapprove of castrating the Djun. That kind of literal low blow seems right up her alley.

Multi-Facets wrote:

Maybe in some weird way, Krim wanted to die in a way that would honor Kahvi. It sounded like some serious respect and hero-worship was going on there. I can't imagine Kahvi would disapprove of castrating the Djun. That kind of literal low blow seems right up her alley.

That point is so very, very, very true. That is something Kahvi would GREATLY appreciate. Even if it wasn't a fatal blow, the blow that was delivered was one that directly impacts, and perhaps worse than death - utterly destroy's the enemies "self worth" and confidence - by striking at his male "pride."

That said, I understand where you're coming from Embala. We have seen Wolfriders, such as Cutter make a drastic change from the normal way of things (while other, such as Strongbow hold fast to those).

I was merely explaining, why in my head, I always thought the Go-Backs simply had that mind set. "Die in combat, but take your enemy with you."

I don't think Krim went into the fray thinking "I'm gonna chop the balls off the Junn, for no good reason."
She probably was planning on killing him, but for some reason she couldn't get to the 'normal' killing-spots.
As for why she didn't just cut the artherie: Maybe she had some sort of vague memory that if you cut a person somewhere between the legs they tend to bleed-out pretty quick. When Angrif annoyingly didn't die Krim was basically being "Drat! Should have paid more attention to those anathomi (sp?) lessons!"
Besides; if Krim had killed Angrif then and there he would have had a quick and painfree death, now he  gets to suffer!

Embala wrote:

Hey, there's finally a fight! A good chance to die like a Go-Back. NOW. Screw it that I have a lifemate and a young son. Screw it that the tribe is in danger and might need everyone. I WANT to diiiiiie NOW. Dying is FUN.

Sust is an adult. He doesn't need a mother.

Chopping someone's balls off to insult him makes sense from our human perspective but why should it from an elven one?

In the HY stories about Rayek's childhood is an episode when he brings back the first Zwoots and one of the male elves says "I wish mine were as long as this dick" (or something like that), which always irked me. Why should an elf think that some long cock is something desirable? Aren't all genitals created equal? Would they mock someone because of a small dick? Would they think someone is more of a man because he has a large one? I don't think so. It's a human thing.

Why should castrating Angrif be in any way meaningful? Yes, he will not have sex any more (not in a conservative way, at least) but else? Would elves think that all his children are going to be villains and therefore have to be stopped being conceived in the first place? That not having balls is going to make him any way less manly?

Miss Gillespie wrote:

Chopping someone's balls off to insult him makes sense from our human perspective but why should it from an elven one?

Why should castrating Angrif be in any way meaningful? Yes, he will not have sex any more (not in a conservative way, at least) but else? Would elves think that all his children are going to be villains and therefore have to be stopped being conceived in the first place? That not having balls is going to make him any way less manly?

Oh, it might be a human thing (have not read the HY story) - but I think the elves understand, even if they don't see it as the same thing; that severing someone's "balls" prevents them from breeding. So it's not a matter of size; but a matter of disabling someone's ability to reproduce and creating a potential heir to groom into the same ways of hatred.

Especially among the Go-Backs, who were a lot more crass than your standard ElfQuest elf, and also had a very important emphasis in breeding their numbers up so that they could create soldiers to fight the war against the trolls.

Miss G wrote:

In the HY stories about Rayek's childhood is an episode when he brings back the first Zwoots and one of the male elves says "I wish mine were as long as this dick" (or something like that)

Whoa Bessy! Back up a minute... I have absolutely no recollection of this! And I'm pretty sure I would have noticed it!

Miss G wrote:

Chopping someone's balls off to insult him makes sense from our human perspective but why should it from an elven one?

I'm pretty sure they know what balls are for-- they have healers. And if they know what the testicles do... then that sort of answers the question, right?

Lunakat wrote:

/>Whoa Bessy! Back up a minute... I have absolutely no recollection of this! And I'm pretty sure I would have noticed it!

"

Lunakat wrote:

I'm pretty sure they know what balls are for-- they have healers. And if they know what the testicles do... then that sort of answers the question, right?

I'm not saying they don't know what balls are for, I'm saying that the lack of balls shouldn't matter to them. Is Ekuar less a person because he is missing limbs? If there was an elf without testicles, who didn't want to change this, do you think others would make fun of him?

Miss Gillespie wrote:

I'm not saying they don't know what balls are for, I'm saying that the lack of balls shouldn't matter to them. Is Ekuar less a person because he is missing limbs? If there was an elf without testicles, who didn't want to change this, do you think others would make fun of him?

It wasn't an elf who got his balls chopped off, was it? Just because it wouldn't matter to an elf doesn't mean the elves don't know it would matter to a human, especially one as proud as Angrif.
Besides - as has been mentioned - Krim very likely didn't do it merely to humiliate Angrif, but rather because:

1: No ball = no children.

2: It hurts.

I think she probably also did it to humiliate him.

If you don't have balls, you can't have sex. You cannot get it up. You can't make more babies. You are the end of your line. Also-- it's an intimate thing used for intimate acts. I think the elves would understand the implications of all that.

Embala wrote:

*sigh* I REALLY wish for one or two Go-Backs, nicely fleshed out and well known, who are able and WILLING to survive.

Yun? I don't remember her ever having a death wish.

At least she seems fine with living ... : but she's half Wolfrider.

Suppose if Yun Counts, then so does Venka, and she might be the person to change the mentality of the Go-Backs.