Final Quest #24

BlueCoyote wrote:

What about Dre-ann? What About Dre-ann!?!? I sat through this whole series waiting for us to finally get some sort of reveal, or him to pull some Silent Bob thing where he only speaks to utter Great Truths, but no, they just sort of threw him out there as a half-formed character that they didn't know what to do with so he's just sort humming theme music in the background for no apparent reason.

Aaaand Kronk Gif wins the Internet for today!

Lots of gushing fans on Facebook...makes me wonder if I’m just over critical or if they are not critical enough. There are so many plot holes you could use it as a colander.

Stargazer wrote:

Lots of gushing fans on Facebook...makes me wonder if I’m just over critical or if they are not critical enough. There are so many plot holes you could use it as a colander.

The fans that have enough of the fanatic left in them to join a writer's personal forum or interact on Facebook probably aren't going to be as critical. That's not meant as a dig, they're just looking to get a different experience.

I'm now deeply concerned for Wendy. She killed a self-insert character. That makes me worry she's suicidal on some unconscious level.

No exposition on Dre-ahn? The Palace magically brought back the biomass and primal life that was in every plant and animal back on Aluanek? Ember and Teir never have their kid? Skywise and Timmain never have theirs?

WHY THE FUCK DO THE ELVES EVEN BOTHER WITH BODIES AND FUCKING IF THEY'RE SO MUCH BETTER OFF AS SPIRITS!? WHAT DID KRIM MEAN WHEN SHE SAID "IT'S NOT JUST GOING BACK TO THE PALACE"!?!? AFJADKSFKLJASGKLJAS *flips a table and sets it on fire*

FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON FUCK CANON

Sadachbia wrote:

I'm now deeply concerned for Wendy. She killed a self-insert character. That makes me worry she's suicidal on some unconscious level.

No exposition on Dre-ahn? The Palace magically brought back the biomass and primal life that was in every plant and animal back on Aluanek? Ember and Teir never have their kid? Skywise and Timmain never have theirs?

WHY THE FUCK DO THE ELVES EVEN BOTHER WITH BODIES AND FUCKING IF THEY'RE SO MUCH BETTER OFF AS SPIRITS!? WHAT DID KRIM MEAN WHEN SHE SAID "IT'S NOT JUST GOING BACK TO THE PALACE"!?!? AFJADKSFKLJASGKLJAS *flips a table and sets it on fire*

Skywise and Timmain do - there’s a background image of them floating with their baby in the big shot of the elves on the home world.

I was annoyed that Dr Dre was just left unexplained. I thought we might find out something, or he might have some major role to play, but no...he just stands around humming. What was the point?

If the palace could rejuvenate the home world so easily, why didn’t the coneheads do that in the first place?

Sadachbia wrote:

I'm now deeply concerned for Wendy. She killed a self-insert character. That makes me worry she's suicidal on some unconscious level.

This speculation is quite .. erm.. dramatic?
But I have to admit the thought of "What's going on with this?" has crossed my mind. My thought would be one hell of a late mid-life crisis. After your post, the vision of Wendy hysterically screaming and ripping pages out of old EQ comics came to mind.  

Stargazer wrote:

If the palace could rejuvenate the home world so easily, why didn’t the  coneheads do that in the first place?

I thought they built spaceships from the remainders of their planet? I always thought there was no planet to go back to. Maybe the palace itself is grown into a planet?

Sadachbia wrote:

I'm now deeply concerned for Wendy. She killed a self-insert character. That makes me worry she's suicidal on some unconscious level.

Harrison Ford wanted to kill off Han Solo way back in the 80s, and finally got his wish a couple of years ago. Are you concerned for him too?

Perhaps ending Cutter was the only way Wendy felt she could move forward, to declare that the main character's story (and therefore the story itself) is Told now. It would explain why FQ was so extremely phoned-in and clusterfucky-- good ol' short-timer's syndrome. (Aka "senioritis", for those currently more closely affiliated with school than the workplace.)

The difference between Cutter and Han Solo is that Harrison Ford never said "Han is basically me but with the human [and female] characteristics removed".

I think I am still somewhat upset with it.
You all will forgive me a little venting here, right?


I felt emotionally touched. But the nasty thing is: it was more because I was hoping they wouldn't botch it at the end. But in my eyes it is half botched. I was more emotionally touched by shaking my head and nearly facepalming and this... "Fremdschämen".
This is when you feel ashamed - but for someone e.g. doing a performance on stage and failing, but YOU are feeling ashamed and it hurts.
I was hoping that they wouldn't botch it and deliver something with the qualities of the old days. I mean, I recommend EQ to others, but then I see some parts of FQ (and others), I wonder.

That Cutter went rather silently, is okay for me. It's a change for all the stereotypical heroic deaths.
But it was not necessary. And the off time reason "kill the main character to end the whole thing" was showing through all the flimsy paint. Far-fetched actions and statements. In-World, in-time it made little sense, especially his own reactions, the reactions of bystanders (Karaktermoord again?), the later reaction (yeah, Skywise just left for good and now he's crying for unspent hours... WTF?).
But yeah, let's not forget, it's just a falling feather, okay?
So why don't you all fucking suicide and be off better as palace-spirits? What sense is there? Why didn't Cutter go with the palace if he feels so fucking tired of life? Ah, wait, that far-fetched Shuna-thing, and no, Preservers can't wrap her cause... wait. WTF?

But it was there from the beginning. Different linework (which I could understand because of the change analog -> digital), which easily stirs up a protesting emotion in my stomach. The colouring different and sometimes a little off (I think a few colours just don't match some elves, esp. screaming turquiose combinations).

But this lazy, jumping, confusing and character-denying storytelling ... RAAAAAH!


I understand they might feel burnt out, but then they should have focused on all the rich characters they already have. And not introduce a plethora of new story-strands and shallow characters you forgot 2 pages further on. Sometimes they just seemed to be a dress-up-doll for new fancy (and maybe impractical) costumes. Focus on the good and deep characters that are there. And not mess them up.


> Cut-Let

Ah, right. And I already wondered who that elf was all of a sudden. Thanks, people!
Still no Teir / Ember child in sight?


> Wendy suicidal?

Not sure. I rather think it's this "I'm tired of 40y EQ and deadlines" (which is okay for me) and "kill off the main character must end any comic so let's kill him off" (which is less okay for me). Yes, Cutter was kind of her alter ego. Maybe they also wanted to show what hard-asses they are (fantasy with teeth, "our characters stay dead and don't suddenly return by a miracle"). And maybe some "oh yeah, this will probably shake the fans and they'll all talk about how emotionally gripping FQ is".
Yes, they got me shaking. In disbelief that this is supposed to be the high-quality EQ we once loved.

Should it horrify me that I was more sad about that than about Cutter's death? Maybe because I just can't consider this mess to be canon?

I liked Cutter's death. Not the way it came about (seriously, why was Rayek flying him around so randomly and why didn't he set down closer to everyone else?) but the gentle, almost anticlimactic, death and the emotional reactions of everyone else felt right and fitting.

I wonder if that human war-chief isn't supposed to be accidentally right: Cutter did offer his life for Shuna's even if not in the mystical sense.

I really want to say more.
I always have
I just never saw the point
And now I know I was right to just keep my mouth shut through it all.
Just
Pointless.

"So why don't you all fucking suicide and be off better as palace-spirits? What sense is there?"

My thoughts exactly.

I just … it’s like, the Palace is basically a ship powered by ghosts. Ghosts which now inhabit a dead planet. Oh look, the plants and animals magically come back. What the fuck was the point of bodies? Why fuck, for that matter?

All those High Ones and Gliders and Go-Backs, meat to be wasted because their souls were destined to dissolve in rock for the benefit of a couple dozen randos who weren’t even born there?

What was the point of having Venka have a kid if there’s no story importance to her? “Hey, so, welcome to the planet of your ancestors, Satreeka. By the way, there are only like 60 of us living here on the entire fucking planet. Hope you don’t get lonely!”

Like, what the hell are the Star Folk going to DO for the rest of their infinite lives? Start a galactic trade network? Take up scrapbooking? Create the Nexus Project?

*throws Final Quest in a pile with Mass Effect 3, all of Once Upon a Time from the season 3 finale and on, and most post-TBC Warcraft lore*

Wait - I thought the Trolls went with the Firstcomer to the Star Home?

Obviously part of the Trolls stayed. Given their former fertility rate this will be a crowded underground soon. Otherwise Trinket would be a very lonesome maiden.

I admit that Trinket oogling Cutlet made me grin. "Some things never change." and "She prefers the pointed ears!" ^^

Maybe we all want to chill down a little? Elfquest is just a comic book, it's not essential to run this world.

Future Quest has almost no redeeming qualities, but Searcher and the Sword and Discovery already hinted at this.

I'm pretty sure the old planet was somehow restored, but not by the palace (hence Krim).
The thing with the spirits is, that the elves are sometimes presented to us as being like "higher level" humans (the don't discriminate, they share, no jealousy or greed) and sometimes as aliens. Hive-minded aliens probably don't mind the 60 inhabitants, humans might do (even though I'm sure a lot of tribes in the Amazon don't have higher head counts, or people in the neolithic or bronze age came across more folks).
There is probably also a problem with Skywise and his interstellar travel, doesn't time run differently for the star travellers and for those who stayed on the planet? Basically they just took of and in a spit second they are back on earth?

One of my very favourite TV shows is Hannibal. It has it's plot holes, you need a healthy dose of suspension of disbelief, but the overall products works so great for me, that I can ignore those plot holes.
Final Quest is full of plot holes, but the rest is so bad, that the product as a whole is not enjoyable. Not for me, and apparently a lot of other people as well.

I hate Hannibal's entire concept, so please don't compare it to Elfquest.

OK, sorry, that was really snarky—but seriously cannibalism is a CW for me so I'd rather not it come up in conversation, like, ever. >_<

Ok deep breaths, everyone. First of all, let’s all agree not to scold one another for our interests outside of EQ. Somethings may not work for one person while being loved by another , and that’s perfectly fine. To each their own. Second, regardless of Hannibal’s premise, Miss Gillespie was simply making an analogy, and it’s one I definitely agree with. All the plot holes in the world wouldn’t matter if the experience of reading FQ was better. To me, that would mean art I enjoyed more, storylines I enjoyed more, characters I enjoyed more. Even if large elements still strained credulity, I would have been along for the ride as long as it was fun. But by and large, FQ was not an enjoyable read for me, and I coasted along on accrued good will from the previous two decades of admiration for Wendy and affection for EQand it’s characters.

Additionally, I don’t think it’s appropriate to speculate on Wendy’s mental health. There is nothing in this final issue to really call that into question. Writers “kill their darlings” as a matter of course, and it’s utterly unsurprising that Cutter’s story ended with his death. FQ was, perhaps above all, a spritual treatise of sorts. I think Wendy was trying to convey her world-view and spirituality explicitly and to a greater extent than in any other iteration of EQ. This does feel like a “mature” work, concerned with death, transitions, the nature and purposes of the soul, etc. She gave the game away for me on the last page when Shuna refers to “all that is”—that’s how many “new age” spiritualists refer to the “god” concept. Some of my family is into a lot of new agey writings, and I have some strong suspicions about what Wendy has been reading. I don’t have a problem with any of it, I just wish it was presented in a way that made for more effective storytelling. But I think for Wendy, the message was more important than entertainment.

The plot holes are what they are. FQ has deep structural and conceptual problems IMO, challenges that Wendy’s storytelling and art did not overcome. Your mileage may vary. But it seemed clear to me that wendy’s been living with some of the scenes from this last issue for a very long time. There was a purity of intention and emotion that shine through for me in those few moments. It’s just a shame the journey to reach these scenes was so frustrating. Others are, of course, entitled to find nothing redeeming in the entire exercise of to love all of FQ unreservedly. But let’s not invalidate others’ experiences or misdirect our frustration and disappointment. You are all very kind and thoughtful folks, and I have always appreciated the civility on this board and the old one, even before I ever posted.

Wisp wrote:

Additionally, I don’t think it’s appropriate to speculate on Wendy’s mental health. There is nothing in this final issue to really call that into question. Writers “kill their darlings” as a matter of course, and it’s utterly unsurprising that Cutter’s story ended with his death.

Thank you.

I mean, all of what you said, but this part especially.

Cutter isn't just any protagonist, HE IS A SELF-INSERT. That reads to me as suicide by proxy. Why am I the only one who sees it?

Like, I'm not meaning this as some kind of insult, "oh look she's gone off the deep end", I'm meaning it as a kind of "has anyone checked to make sure she's on antidepressants if she needs them, and take away all the shoelaces in the house"

I understand what you're saying, Sadachbia, and I absolutely see that it's coming from a place of sincerity and concern, but I feel like it's still inappropriate for us to publicly speculate. Most importantly, it's not our place, but also, fiction is not a one-to-one correlation with real life. It's symbolic. Think of how in Tarot reading, the Death card isn't indicative of an actual, literal death, but of endings and change.

I think it’s facile and, frankly, demeaning to refer to cutter purely as a self-insert. Wendy has said that he reflects certain aspects of her personality, specifically her animus. A symbolic affinity for a character does not equal a Gary Stu. Wendy has not been playing an elaborate role-playing game for 40 years, nor have I ever read EQ as a 1-to-1 reflection of her life. Please give her credit as a professional storyteller and artist. This bothers me especially since she is a female artist and I think women often don’t get credit for their world-building creative endeavors the way male professionals do. It’s always al a Mary Sue or a self-indulgent fantasy, never real work or thoughtful creation. I don’t think it’s your intention to imply all this, but maybe consider giving her more credit, if not for FQ then for everything that came before.

…It has nothing to do with being female. If Sir Arthur Conan Doyle had said Sherlock Holmes was based on him, I'd have been just as worried about Sherlock's death in the books (which, of course, was reversed since Doyle decided he wanted his old income back).

I get people jumping on my back if I so much as *hint* at my usual low-level self-harming compulsions, let alone anything about ending my life, so why am I being yelled at FOR CARING? Should I just tear out my heart again and stop having compassion for people? This is why I hate pretending to be a human. It's always a gorram minefield.